[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to the Short Term Show. The show about short term rentals and long term wealth with real property owners hosting real properties who are crushing it.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: In the vacation and short term rental space.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: And here's your host, Avery Carle.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Hey y' all. Welcome back to another episode of the Short Term Show. I'm your host, Avery Carle. Don't forget to leave us a five star review on anywhere that you listen to podcasts. The more reviews we get, the more content like this we can bring to help you learn how to invest in short term rentals effectively. And we've got a really great guest today. Her name is Tammy Gibbons. She 1031 exchange her family 120 acre farm into short term rentals. And we're going to hear about her experience and how that is going today. Hi Tammy, how are you?
[00:01:03] Speaker C: Hi. So good to be here. Thank you.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for coming on. So let's start off, tell us a little bit about you and how you got into short term rentals.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Yeah. So I need to give a shout out to my husband. So he many, many years ago bought his family farm from his father who continued to live on. It was 120 acres, managed forest land, beautiful property in southwest with the hope of doing something with it at some point.
And we are 55 and 60 and in our 50s adopted two young children. And so life changed a little bit. And so our goals changed a little bit and so chose to put the farm basically on the market and at the time sold really well and needed to turn that around. And so my husband really did a lot of diving in on markets and market research and returns on investment, all those things. And then we'd sit and we'd talk, we'd talk about which markets.
And then we really landed on Panama City Beach. And so we launched in, we had read Avery's book and read a lot of other things, started listening to the work and then we called the short term shop essentially and got a great realtor in Napachius.
And now we've got a couple properties in Panama City beach that are doing well.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Amazing. And I'm gonna say something first. I know we're not supposed to talk about people's appearances, but you do not look 60.
[00:02:33] Speaker C: I'm 55. Thank you. Okay. Okay.
This year.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I did think you were in your 40s. You don't look 55 either.
[00:02:42] Speaker C: That's really kind of you. Let me tell you though, when you adopt children as late as we have, right. This is why people have kids at 25. Not at 55. Right. Like you gotta stay active. So. And you know, we could talk about this like how this investing and parenting requires you to be really habitual. Right.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Really, let's hear about it.
[00:03:01] Speaker C: Thoughtful about how you take care of yourself. And so we're active because.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:05] Speaker C: Yesterday was a big family kickball game. I got to be able to run around those bases.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: So yeah, yeah. You do have to be extremely intentional and habitual with your time when you've got really little kids because things come up and you're. Oh, there's been so many times that I've had this like great productive day planned and 8:30 in the morning or 9 o' clock, the kids school calls and somebody has a fever. And so you know the, of course you prioritize and you know, everything else gets pushed to the wayside and you're like, oh man, all of a sudden you're, you're three days behind. So yeah, you really do have to like wake up early, get that stuff done and get everything done like before the kids get up. Pretty much is what I've learned.
[00:03:49] Speaker C: And I should have mentioned when we took on this journey, we decided that I would property manage. So we do not have property managers. So we're still both full time. We own a physical therapy clinic.
I work in education.
So we both are doing that at the same time property managing. And there were a lot of people who said don't do that, don't, don't you need to hire somebody. You'll never be able to manage that. And I said, well if you're disciplined, right, you certainly can, can be your own property manager. And that has worked for us so far.
So.
Oh yeah, the habits and the discipline are key, especially when you have a young family and we have a young family. So I'm getting them off to the, off on the bus every morning I'm exercising, I'm trying to do all the things so that the rest of my day can stay focused on all the things that both I love and I'm paid to do.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Love that. So let's talk a little bit more about the specifics of your situation. So Y' all had 120 acre farm that your husband bought from his parents and people were renting that farmland. I want to hear a little bit about how that particular type of investment worked first.
[00:04:53] Speaker C: Yeah, great question. So there was a neighboring farmer who rented the cropland and he still runs the crop. So he rented the crop land from the family and the family lived in the house until his father passed away. And then it went to a renter, didn't take care of it, went to another renter, didn't take care of it. And then we decided to parcel it off. So then the farmhouse got parceled off and sold separately, but we kept all of the acreage.
And again, if I could describe to you how beautiful is in southwest Wisconsin. It's just this beautiful property.
And again, it was on managed forest land. And managed forest land is essentially every couple of years you do a cutting and then you make a profit off the cutting of some beautiful maples and some other kinds of trees. And then the goal was we would build this, maybe our retirement home or do something. And then as you know, life goals change and you realize profitability and investment and how you want to live your life longer term. Right?
That's when we said, you know what, maybe there's different ways to invest our money and in different places that we might want to spend time.
And now we're also building an investment portfolio for our own children. And I know you know that really, really well. Certainly heard your post the other day, right. Like this really is about what will our children be able to own one day, what will our children be able to benefit from one day? Again, especially our age and their ages. It's a long time from now. And so we just, we just changed our investment kind of trajectory, if you will, with the goal to keep building the portfolio.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: We have live one on one coaching sessions available with our wonderful top notch coaches at Short Term Shop plus. And we would love to help you in your vacation rental journey.
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[00:07:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I feel a little bit crazy thinking about like, well, what will our children be able to afford the way inflation is? And like, you know, but already just since they've been alive the past almost seven years, property values have tripled or quadrupled in some areas. And I know that the past, you know, the majority of their lives has been Covid and post Covid. So that's not normal. That's Not a normal amount of a jump, but you know, who knows what can happen? So it does occur to me, like I'll have the entire Internet yell at me for being out of touch for like buying a house that we're going to short term rent that potentially my kids could live in one day. If we get to the point of our, our kids generation not being able to afford to live. I mean, it's crazy and who knows, it probably won't happen. Like I'm sure things will stabilize, but I sleep a little better at night. My craziness is one less thing to wake up in the middle of the night and think about.
[00:08:28] Speaker C: Yeah. And I have this vivid memory. I went to college and my dad like college towns, right? So kind of some crappy houses that needed some rehab. And my dad looked at a house and his thought was, what if I buy this and you can live in it, Tammy. Right? Like you wouldn't have to live in dorms, you would have to live in an apartment. Like we would all benefit. And Tammy, you would benefit because long term this could be. And I had three sisters and he ended up not doing it. And I remember years later him saying, gosh, I wish I would have brought that property. Can you imagine where we'd be now? And I remember in my head saying, yeah, don't do those. Gosh, I wish I would have. Right. For a long time I thought about that and I was a teacher for a long time, working two jobs, not investing the way I should have my young self. A, didn't know how to do it well and wasn't asking the right questions and B, was kind of living like, oh, but I want stuff. I want this and I want this. And I wasn't living in a way that would have set me up even better. Now again, this late in life that we waited until in our 50s to buy two properties which we could have and should have thought about that earlier. And I want to pass that on to our kids. What does it mean to invest early and what does it mean to hold on to properties or have a portfolio that brings you money and eventually you can absolutely do anything you want. Your dreams can really come true. You can work any job because you've got this other thing working behind the scenes.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's, that's really important. Like I think about what my kids interests are now. And like one of them wants to be an artist and one of them is really musical and like of course everybody wants to be an artist when they're six. So I. I'm don't. That.
[00:10:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: That's not real life, but, yeah, it's.
When I was in high school and college, it was like, well, you can do. You can go get a big girl job and make money, or you can be a starving artist because I thought I was going to be this punk rock star. So you had to kind of choose. And now, at least the way that we've learned to decide to design our lifestyle is that they don't have to choose. We can teach them how to do the things in the background that they need to do to be able to make money, to live while they can pursue whatever their passion is. I mean, who knows? It'll be a thousand different things by the time they're grown.
But teaching them how to do that so that they don't have to choose or they don't have to ever feel like, oh, you know, I really wish I would have tried this thing, but I didn't because I had this crazy job that wouldn't allow me to.
[00:10:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And I also think about, you know, there's that saying, like, spend your money on experiences, not things. And as a kid growing up, we didn't have things, nor did we have experience. We didn't have big experiences. My parents did great. You know, we did local little johns. But I also never got to travel overseas. I never got to do those things. And I want to be able to do that with my children. I want them to see the world. I want them to experience a lot.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: Lot.
[00:11:15] Speaker C: And I tell. We tell them all the time, like, we have these condos, we have these properties so that we can afford some things that while some of your peers may not be able to experience, it's important to us that we go experience that together.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. All right, so back to the. Back to the farmland and the managed forest land. So how much. This is a random question. How much does a cutting of.
Of like a certain acreage of, like, maple trees or what have you go for? Like, what do you make off of something like that?
[00:11:47] Speaker C: Yeah, it can go, for example, about my husband, my engagement ring. Didn't know that at the time, but it can range from $6,000 to $20,000 a cutting. But you can only do the way the laws work. And I. And I can't cite all the laws, but the way the laws work, it's. You can't do it whenever you want to. There's a certain amount of time you have to wait, and then a DNR person has to come in and look at trees and mark trees and tell you if you have a big enough to do it and then you have to hire a cutter.
So it's about, I want to say, 8 to 10 years to do a cutting.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Okay. And how much do you make on one cutting?
[00:12:24] Speaker C: Yeah, so I think the. I think the last one we did before we sold it was probably 10 or 12,000.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Okay. So that's. And you don't really have to do a lot of managing. These are just woods, right? You just let them grow.
[00:12:36] Speaker C: Yeah, just woods. It's bluffs, it's beautiful rock formations. Yeah, they just come in and take out stuff. That is typically what they take out are some that are like overshadowing, you know, early career trees. And they want to get those out so the other trees can come up.
Some dead trees, things like that.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Okay, super interesting. All right, so we sold this property in Wisconsin. And how did you decide what market to buy your. So you knew you were going to 1031 exchange?
[00:13:06] Speaker C: So we did.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: How did you decide which market to buy in when you did this?
[00:13:10] Speaker C: That's interesting. You asked it because we were really sold on Mountain Market. Like we wanted. Tennessee we wanted. Right. So. So we kind of did all that research first, but then what we found was, yeah, I'm not sure. You know, while great markets, I'm not. We weren't sure it was for us. We decided Beach Market was more our thing. And so then I think. I think it was pretty clear for us that Panama City beach was going to be our place. And so we went all in. We. We looked at properties, we looked at return investments. We looked at just about everything we could to kind of confirm before we pulled the trigger and flew down and started looking at properties.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Had you ever been to Panama City beach before? Or you just kind of started doing some research and said, hey, let's go check this out.
[00:13:56] Speaker C: Yeah, if I'm being honest, it's a spring breaker. So I was in my 20s when I came, so some of the old, like historic mtv, you know, Panama City Beach. Oh my gosh.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Girl Gone Wild.
[00:14:06] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Love that. So you attended MTV spring break and said, this is where I want to own investment properties.
[00:14:15] Speaker C: I think. I think what we knew is we knew enough about the Emerald coast, though, right? Like, we had vacation even with the kids in Gulf Shores. We had gone to Destin one year, and I think we kind of just fell in love with the Emerald Coast. And so then when we started doing our research, financial research, we landed on. So we're far west end of Panama City Beach. So we also wanted quieter. We wanted less traffic. Like, we were pretty intentional about what we wanted, and that's what we got. So we feel pretty lucky that we, again, with Knapp's help, we found things that absolutely checked our boxes, which was important for us.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: Love that. So how did you go about financing these two properties?
[00:14:59] Speaker C: Yeah, so we.
The initial was we're going to take the cash from the farm sale and buy one. So we did. And so we bought one property, basically cash.
And then as I mentioned, there was another one opening up in that building. We talked about, like, now might be the time. Why don't we just pick up a second one? So then we refinanced the first one, put cash into the second one, and then put both out of mortgage, knowing that two properties were going to be better than one and that we could manage the both the mortgage with the cash flow and all the kinds of things. So we bought one in December and we bought the other one in March.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:15:39] Speaker C: This building makes it really easy for the property.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Buying building is so efficient. And also closing on a property in the Panama City or really anywhere in the northwest Florida or Gulf Shores market in December is so great because your first mortgage payment isn't going to be due until February 1st. So you're not having, I mean, you are having to carry the utilities in January and February, but you're not having a lot of your big expenses like your mortgage having to carry through the off season. So, you know, you're closing. If you go under contract in December, you're closing end of January, you're four weeks away from spring break money. So a really great time to buy in this, in that market.
[00:16:19] Speaker C: Yeah, I appreciate you saying that because again, I don't know if we.
I think we knew that, but I don't know that we felt the benefits until we were in it. And now if I think about, like, how do you. When people ask you questions on, you know, timing and, and just how do you find money and how did you finance and what did you do? Like, all those things now seem a lot more clear to me than they did when we were initially. But that was. That's a really good tip. And we've heard you talk about. We've heard Luke talk about it. We've heard lots of different people in the short term shop talk about the timing of things and how that can actually have benefits to you. And that is one of them for sure.
And really, when we bought the second one In March because we put it on different platforms, right. We had, we had bookings right away because right, you got, you got the first time on the platform crew, you got discounted rates crew. But we didn't discount a ton. So both properties were really great by well first one was great by March, second one was great by probably end of April, mid May we were booked. So the timing, we were really grateful for the timing.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that was really good timing. So let's talk about the fact that you chose condos. I'm a big condo fan in the right markets. I'm not a fan in the wrong markets. But a lot of people get so freaked out by condos when they go to buy short term rentals and they like refuse to do as a matter of fact, like we, I've had sellers in the past who we've said hey, okay for your budget, this condo is the best bang for your buck. This is going to be the best performing. And they like refused to buy a condo and then ended up with a townhome a little bit further away. And then it didn't work.
And then now it's like, then they come back to us and they're like mad and we're like, well I mean you refuse to this, this condo is what you should have bought.
And anyway, I think people get so hung up on not really even understanding why they're anti condo because they're like, oh, the HOA could change at any time but if you're buying in the right market you don't have to worry about that. And then you know, by, by being so anti condo and short sighted about it, you, you go buy something that doesn't actually work. So tell me a little bit about did that scare you at all or did you know like condos were going to be cool?
[00:18:39] Speaker C: Yeah. So here's where marriage your mar, your communication in your marriage matters. Right? Because I think we, we saw it differently and my brother in law was also included in some of the, the searching and my husband was kind of anti condo. So to your point, right, HOA fees, you know, people don't like to rent up hot. Like there were lots of different reasons and I said and I, and I wasn't sure but I really kind of wanted a house and so did he because we thought okay, we could have a poop by the pool. And then we just started like not arguing but we started to be like, okay, we're kind of talking about the same thing. We just want to maximize our money from a maintenance standpoint from A upkeep standpoint. And so for us, we really landed on a. And so we looked at both. So nap took us to both. We looked at some homes and we looked at some condos and we did the math, right, because HOA fees are high, insurance for condos, all those things. But in the end we really decided that because we live 16 hours away, the maintenance of the building wasn't our issue. And because we didn't have to maintain a building, we decided to go with a condo where the maintenance of the building was taken care of by somebody else, but we would find boots on the ground, which we have. We should talk about that, right? Like how important it is to have the team on the ground who can go over and fix things, who can go over and check on it, who can go over and appease a guest, who can all those things. And we felt like that was going to be a better return for us from, even from a stress management standpoint, the condo versus the home. So we again, our top three were two condos and a house. And we, we talked ourselves into kind of. And we don't look back like as you know, right. You get in forums, once you're an investor, you get in these forums and people have both sides, which I also understand.
But I think in these forums we've also convinced ourselves like, yep, the condo on the beach, right. Because it's beachfront and it steps outside the door to the beach.
From an investment standpoint and from a drawing guest standpoint has, has sustained us really, really well. So we, we don't look back on that at all.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I love that. And you're right, it is extremely easy to maintain because you don't have to maintain. So you just have at what the HOA fees cover. There's usually a bunch of independent bills you would have had to pay anyway. And the amount of money it takes to just fix things maintenance wise and just capex wise on a single family that you're doing here and there and here and there it all adds up. And people get so freaked out about condo assessments, they're going to have a big assessment. Who cares? It really kind of evens out in terms of single family where you're doing capex here and there as opposed to a condo building where you're doing no capex. You're not paying any capex at all. And then, then it's all scooted together at one time in one assessment.
[00:21:41] Speaker A: Are you worried about your market being saturated?
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[00:23:07] Speaker C: For us too was to look at the, you know, HOA board financials to look at some of the past assessments and what's coming. And one of the reasons sold us on the property that we bought the two units in the property was the, the, the building itself is really well maintained and we, we, what we, what we saw we felt was really maintained. And then when we did do some digging, it's really well maintained. They've had a lot of great upkeep even with some of the storms, right. They've had some, they had some damage from certain storms, things like that.
But we really did our research on what are we getting into, right. Like how healthy is this association, how healthy is this physical building given, you know, why insurance rates were going up.
We also really did think through all of that because the hofs are high. But I'm also not maintaining a pool. I'm also not putting a roof on a house. I'm not doing some of the other things. And to us again to get beachfront, that was really important to us. And so it made sense to put that into our monthly payment, if you will.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Yeah, love that. So I mean, let's talk a little bit about numbers really quick. So how big are these properties, like how many bedrooms, how many do they sleep and what are you grossing on them?
[00:24:20] Speaker C: Yeah, great question. So we bought two, three bedroom, three full bath, 1400 square feet condos. One is in low floor end unit, which I would say is our most popular end unit. Probably less popular than low floor. Right. There's an elevator focus for some people.
And 22nd floor also three bedroom, three bath, 1400 square feet essentially for the most part, same layout.
We've done a bunk room in one of them. The other one is just Traditional king and queen beds.
They both sleep 9 to 10 per fire inspection rules.
Both have updated kitchens prior to us buying them. So we felt really lucky. That 22nd floor is a full wraparound balcony which is a huge draw for people because the views are outstanding. If you've been to Panama City beach, right. The, the views of the ocean from a bel balcony are just outstanding. Sunset sunrises and sunsets. Like I said, most both of them updated modern. So the two properties together bring us about 200 a year.
And we feel pretty good about that because we can pay bills and put some money in the bank. And if you know Panama City beach, right. Peak season, shoulder season. So we've worked hard on getting some snowbirds in there at good rates.
I use all the tools, I use price labs. I do all the things to manage our rates throughout the year. And for us, our three bedrooms go from about 300 a night up to about 699 a night depending on season.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: So that I hear you right, you've got two condos and they're grossing you a, a, an cumulative. That's not the word I'm looking for, but that's the word I'm going to use. 200,000 a year.
[00:26:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, I think we're around there. Again, I don't have it in front of me.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: That's great. Those are, those are great numbers. I love that. And you, what year did you buy these?
[00:26:18] Speaker C: 21St one is December of 22, second one March of 23.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: So you bought at the height of prices, interest rates. So this is very interesting to me because we get so many sellers right now who like, they bought before, before the COVID boom, before the interest rates went up. You know, they've got these great rates, they had these great prices. They're making great cash flow and they're just like, well, you know, I'm not making as much money today as I was in 2022 at the height. So I want to sell it. I'm like, oh my God, no, no, you cannot sell. I will. I refuse to list this even though you're going to pay me to do that just because it's like, man, dude, like you can't. Every year cannot be your best year ever. You're only going to have one best year ever. And don't sell a property just because it's making a few bucks less than it did two years ago when you had this great rate and great price on the property.
But I love like such a breath of fresh air to hear somebody say, you Bought at the height of prices and the height of interest rates and you're still crushing it.
[00:27:21] Speaker C: Well, we're trying, right? But if you think about, and you know this, the, the keys really are treating guests really, really well. Like we treat guests really, really well and yet we don't, we don't do welcome baskets. That's not something we do.
But we're really great at communication. Our properties show really, really well.
I have an exceptional cleaner.
I have a wonderful handyman. I have a great concierge. Right. So, like, we've got this team that even if something like last week, the water was off in the building, right. And so the guest was ticked. Like they didn't have water. They have water for showers. They have water for. Right.
And while that's completely out of my control, my communication with her still got a five star review. Even though she, you know, she said to me personally, like, that was really a struggle, but thank you for helping us work through it. And the water came on and those are those moments where like, you really have to shine to have people. And then she said, we're booking for October. Great. Come on back. Hopefully the water won't go off. You know what I mean? So the communication is just, I think has been.
And we learned that. I feel like I'm a good communicator anyway, but we certainly learned, like, treat your guests well and they will treat your property well and they will want to come back. And we've had quite a few return guests. Quite a few.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: Man, you're just like, I feel like I don't even have mean. I have a lot of questions to ask. So let's. I want to talk about again, so many people. We're going back to the condo thing for a different reason. People get so bent out of shape about, well, I don't want to have a condo because there's so many condos and they're all going to look the same and how am I going to stand out? So you are clearly standing out in some way. And it. My assumption, which I'm 99% sure that my assumption is correct, crushing everybody else in your building.
So how are you able to do that? How are you able to differentiate. Differentiate yourself as a condo?
[00:29:13] Speaker C: Well, so a couple of things we learned, right? Like your, your, your photos matter, right. So we've handled, we've hired good photographers who highlight things like a really, a really cool remodeled kitchen in one of them. And that is our, you know, prime photo. And it's. I, we think it sells the condo it, it's. The prior owner did an outstanding job on the kitchen remodel. So photographs would be one.
Again, I don't, we don't go cheap on our prices and I still get guests. So I think having five stars and saying like, we're not, because again, in these forums, like, you got to lower your prices, guys. It's the only way to stay competitive. We've not gone low and we've stayed competitive.
And I do monitor the other properties in our building and what they're charging and I'm above it. So my, my rates are above and I am, I have one night in June available. Between the two and in our hoa, you have to have a three night minimum. So I can't, I can't book it. I can sell it, I can upsell it.
But having one night open in June, I think I had six. I have six nights maybe in May.
I just feel like we're doing all the right things, putting all the pieces together. On top of communicating early with guests, when they reach out with inquiries, I try and sell them, like, why this property is the one they want to choose.
They ask like, how far are you from the recent one was how far are you from the college in Panama City? I Google it, gave me exact mileage, told them which roads to take, tell them the most efficient drive, right. And they booked it.
But if you just say, hey, we're, you know, nine miles away, that might seem long. If they know anything about Panama City beach and you take Front beach and it's going to take you 30 minutes.
So again, I think it stands out just because we've communicated.
We do a little, we do social media. We've got pla, we've got those kind of platforms going. I don't do a ton of social media.
Like, I don't do. A lot of people do ads or boost ads. I don't do a lot of that. But we're on a couple platforms and then we do direct bookings also. So most of my client, most of our guests return on our direct booking site, which is, is maybe an obvious strategy.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: Love that. So you're just out hosting the competition, which to be honest with you, not to take anything away from your skill level, but is not hard to do in a lot of these mega markets like Panama City. Like, everybody freaks out. Oh my God, there's so many listings. I can't buy there, it's saturated. But go look at them. Go act like you're gonna book a vacation rental in Panama City beach and you're gonna see that like the vast majority of those listings are not good.
So you're basically, you're out hosting the competition, you've got good photos, you're pricing well and you've mentioned forums a couple times. And the more I am a, a person who uses the Internet, the more I realize that like a lot of these forums and like Facebook groups and stuff have just like gone to complete hell. Like they used to be really helpful back in the like I would say 2019, 2020, but now everybody on there, I have people who will comment on, on things that I post just on social media and say, oh, bookings are down 30% in such and such market.
I'm like, oh, has that been your experience? Well, no, my friend said I don't even own anything there. And, and people read this new people read these garbage comments from people. And this is in any, this isn't just short term rentals or real estate investing. This is any, any Reddit thread or Facebook group you can find.
And somebody will say something and then 10 people will tell them why, why they're an idiot. And these 10 people don't even have any experience in the thing that they're doing and it's just complete garbage now. So I've kind of like, I've stopped even looking at short term rental Facebook groups because there's so many idiots running around that don't even, don't even own anything. They've never bought anything. But it makes them feel better to go shit on other people's posts and say like, oh, like I posted something about buying a new vacation rental in on 38. People are like, oh, that's going to be underwater in 20 years. You're stupid. If the climate change is so bad that the water has risen to come over a quarter mile inland over the entire coast of Florida, we got a lot bigger problems than me having a vacation rental right there.
[00:33:28] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I think about. So I was an elementary school principal, right? And if you think about the state of public education right now and all the critics, all the Karens who want to talk about how terrible schools are and how terrible this and how terrible that, right?
And yet they don't have children in schools, they haven't had children in schools, all that, right? It's the same space, it's that same world I'm in now. I coach principals and I try and say, hey, you're doing good for kids. Everybody's going to be a critic, right?
But many years ago, what do they.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: Say the best parents are Always the ones that have no children, Right. Telling everybody else what they should be doing with their kids or your kids shouldn't be acting like that. They don't have any.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.
So a number of years ago I read the book Atomic Habits by James and in there he talks about make sure you join the culture. I'm not going to word it right, but it was like, make sure you join the culture that mirrors your desired state.
Meaning get on the social media groups, get on the blogs, get on the podcasts where the energy he talks about the energy of that space is matching where you want to be. And you will get there. Right? Because again, you. I can get on, I can get on all these forums and there will always be people just come ripping Panama City beach right now. Right? Because one thing gets in the media and again, Panama City beach is lawn. Right.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: Certain.
[00:34:49] Speaker C: And then you talk about rates. Well, if you're gonna spend $40 a night on a place, you're probably gonna have some ideas about what kind of a place you're gonna all that. Right? But I want to get in the forums that talk about like what it's like to be a successful host and lessons learned from successful hosts and what's my next iteration of being a successful. I want to get on those places because that's my desired state. If I get stuck doom scrolling or I get stuck reading comments for people who talk about how awful it is to be a condo owner, how awful it is to be insured in Florida, how awful it is, how guests are so awful. I think you had a post recently, you did have a post recently about, you showed a video of an angry guest, for example. We have never been treated like that ever by a guest. And you said you've never had that experience. Right. But if you get in these forums, you start to believe, oh gosh, I don't know if I want to be a property manager. I want someone else to tackle all those angry guests. I don't have that. Like, that is not something we experience.
But again, you can counter that with how you are as a host, how you communicate. And so again, I have James clear in my head, like, spend time in the culture of your desired state. Where do you want to be? And then spend time with people who are like that.
And that's what again, not necessarily a promo, but that's what the short term shop has been for us. It's been really clear articulated what you can do to be a successful host. And then you make it happen because you guys can't do it for us. No one can do it for us. But if we get into spaces where it's possible and where it's happening, we can do some of those things and maybe do it in our own way and make it better. That that's like our thinking from a, from an owner host perspective.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: I love that, man. You guys, I think you're just such a good example of if you are looking for opportunity and positivity, you will experience that. Whereas if you are looking for a reason to fail or a reason to looking for all the reasons why you're a victim and why, well, I wasn't successful because Panama City beach is oversaturated, then that's what you're going to experience. And I think you have been so positive and just seen everything as an opportunity rather than an obstacle or something that's creating a victim mentality in you. And I think that your success in your numbers, that, that has shown up.
[00:37:04] Speaker C: Up.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: And yeah, kudos to you. You're crushing it.
[00:37:08] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you. Yeah. I mean, we've had guests who say, I don't like your mattresses. We've had guests say, you know, 12 wine glasses isn't enough. Like that. All that happens.
All that happens. But it's how you communicate with them because none of those ones I just mentioned didn't leave a five star review. Right. So it's not like people aren't going to love everything about your property. People won't love the recliners we chose. People won't love the bedding we. That, that's going to happen.
Yeah. But we've tried to say, you know what, that's going to happen. I go to places too, and I don't love everything about it, but did the experience still give me what I paid? Yes, absolutely.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: So, Tammy, before we ask the final three questions of the show, what about your journey? Do you think our listeners could benefit from hearing that? I haven't asked you.
[00:37:54] Speaker C: I really think it's the don't be shy to take a risk on a property that may have been not in your, in your plan. Right.
Because again, we thought, we thought mountain cabin, we thought home with pool, and then we settled on condo. Like, don't, don't go into it believing that there's only one way to do it. Be open to again. Part of that would be who do you hire as a realtor who could talk you through, like the region that they're in that you're not in? Like, you just got to be open to thinking about properties more widely than maybe you initially thought you were going.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: To use your money for great advice. Now we're going to ask you for some more advice. Number one, what advice would you have for 20 year old Tammy if you knew then what you know now?
[00:38:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I kind of said this before. It is not about stuff. It's about experiences for you and your family, but also experiences for other people. And those experiences can be a revenue stream.
And I didn't, I didn't know that at 20. At 20 it was all about making money to spend money and on stuff. Right. What am I going to put in my apartment? I worked at Pier 1 Imports, if you remember that. Right. So I taught you the name and go to Pier 1 and I would buy everything on sale at Pier 1 because I needed it, but I didn't need it.
And so I wasn't, I just wasn't saving. It was, it was really an era of how do I make this life for myself. But it was a life of stuff. And my 20 year old self didn't think what my 55 year old self would really want, which is absolutely less is more.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Absolutely, totally, totally agree with that. All right, number two, what advice would you give a new investor who's interested in getting started in short term rental investing today?
[00:39:40] Speaker C: I'm sorry, I'm going to repeat myself. That really is. Make sure you're in the cultures that lift you up and don't suck you down because that sucking you down will, will paralyze you if you will from making good decisions or future decisions because you will start to believe you read and start to believe other people's experience will be your experience and that just isn't. We're not there. Which I'm really grateful and we never really were there but it was easy to get sucked in early on and how I should price and how to get five star reviews and how people are going to damage your property and how you have to use insurance. And I just. You can't believe all of that. You've got to do the work yourself and believe that your habits and your disposition and your commitment will be better than those experiences that you're doom scrolling about.
[00:40:33] Speaker B: Also great advice. And last question. What's your favorite book that's impacted your mindset?
[00:40:40] Speaker C: Well, I shared with you that our journey really started with yours. But and I've also mentioned, I would say atomic habits because there's so much in that book that talks about habits.
First of all, your habits should be. You start out with making habits that are two minutes right. Just Two minute habits. What are you doing for two minutes? And for me, I have a routine in the morning on what I'm checking, like online things. What am I checking about gas? What am I checking?
But bigger than that, the habits come from systems. And I know you know this well, like, we have had to put systems in place and there were systems we didn't have before because we know properties. Right. And so that book taught me a lot about thinking differently about the habits that you create. Because it's really system. It's any habit. Like if you want to eat better or get in better shape or do anything for a habit, you got to think about the systems you have to put into place for those things to actually take root. Because if you just try and create a habit without changing the systems, it doesn't work. I mean, it's proven over and over again. And for us, we have really strong systems of communication with all the people I mentioned, our boots on the ground. We have systems for our pricing, we have systems for communication with gas. We just have systems now that, to your point earlier, have, have, I believe, have ensured our success and will continue to ensure our success because we've built the systems necessary to be successful.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: All very good advice. Tammy, thank you so much for coming on the show today. You've been such a breath of fresh air. If our listeners want to find you and follow you on social media, how can they do that?
[00:42:18] Speaker C: See that? Yeah, it's our title. So it's at. At enjoy the view str.com all right.
[00:42:25] Speaker B: And I am at the averycarl.com or the short term shop is at the short term shop. I'm not at Instagram at the Avery Carl. And the short term shop is at the short term shop. Or you can find
[email protected]. tammy, thanks again so much for coming on.
[00:42:43] Speaker C: Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for the time, Avery.
