[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey y' all. Welcome back to another episode of the Short Term show. I'm your host, Avery Carle. Before we get started today, please note we have a lot of jobs up on our careers page. Specifically agents in the Orlando Park City, Shenandoah, Outer Banks and Smoky Mountains market. So if you think that you are an agent that might be a fit, go over to shorttermshop.com or email us at careers@the Short Term Shop.com also be sure to leave this podcast a five star review. The first more reviews we have, the more content we can bring you to try to help you on your short term rental journey. Now we have a very cool guest today, very experienced short term rental investor and arbitrage or which a lot of times people don't do both. They like pick one and that's it. And they don't cross over. Kind of like I don't know a lot of people who own short terms and long terms people kind of buy the thing that they buy and they stick with it. But I like diversification and this guest does two.
And we've got Michael Chang from str. Like the best I've known Michael Wolf longer than I'd like to admit at this point, since before COVID we'll put it that way. And Michael, thanks for coming on the show today.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Thank you for having me back on.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah, love to have you back on. And just for the listeners who may not have heard that first one we did years back, just give us a little backstory and reintroduce yourself to our audience.
Sure.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: My name is Michael Chang. I launched our short term rental business, my wife back in 2016. Right now we have 38 properties, 30 that we control through multiple releases. They're located in the city of Philadelphia and we own seven short term rentals, six in the Smokies and one in the Catskills, New York. And we have one more coming online shortly. So that makes 38. And like what what Adri said, we use two different strategies.
We do lease arbitrage which generates cash flowed, my wife and I to both believe our full time jobs and focus on growing our real estate portfolio by buying virtual rentals.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Thank you very much and we do appreciate that. So I think my first question before we get into anything else is so 38, that is a large amount of properties to manage. You know, whether you're owning them or arbitraging them. Once you get them set up, the amount of work is kind of the same in the management. So I want to hear about how you're able to do that efficiently because I hear so many people are like, why would you buy a short term rental? You're creating a job for yourself.
I mean, what difference does it make? It's better than sitting in an office working for somebody else. So I want to hear about that first.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I know it definitely beats working for someone else. Like today you're not working on the show. My son got sick over the weekend and my wife and I could just kind of stay home and take care of him. You know, every day, every time we do that, I am always, you know, very thankful for someone else has been able to provide for me, my family.
So last time I was on, I think we were like 25 total. So we kind of grow the portfolio over the last year and a half. And you know, all of our properties are located at least two hours away from us.
You know, we live in New York City, so Philadelphia is like 2 hours castles is 2 hours and smoking 12 hours away by car. So we don't go down there. And it really is building your team, right? It's the technology, building your team, building the process. And you really can do everything remotely now. The technology is so much better today, 2021, today, in 2025 versus even two years ago. And definitely when I first started 2016, there's so much out there you have to just build, use the right technology that's suitable for what you're trying to do, you know, and then build the team, the va, the cleaners, so that you can run this as a business, right? We, you're not trying to do this again on a job and we're trying to run this as a business.
[00:03:57] Speaker A: I think that's a really important distinction to make the difference between a job and a business.
Like you're, you.
Running a business is not having a job. Running a business is, you know, you're in charge. I don't want to say you don't have a boss because you have however many bosses at any given time as you have rental properties.
So, you know, you do have people to answer to and make sure that you're providing a quality service to them. But there is a difference. You're not buying yourself a job, you're buying yourself a business. And that's different.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Very, very, very different.
So one, this gentleman, Sebastian, someone that I, you know, that I've been help mentoring, he first came to me, he had like 12 units or 12 properties at least, arbitrage, you know, some in New York, some Florida, some in Columbia, the country. And when I first saw him, he, I was like, you look so tired. He's like, yeah, well I get up every day at three in the morning to check messages because I don't have a va. And I was like, okay, but the first thing you have to do is like picture technology.
I got him on an AI bot and now like you know, in answer to all his messages, getting him a VA, improving his processes and now he's like 10 pounds lighter. He's already getting engaged in like a month and like his life is really different six months later. So it really is like if you're like deep in the hole of social rentals and dealing with the day to day with your cleaners, with your guests, whatever the case may be, there really is a better way and the solutions are out there and they're not that expensive. They're like 20, 30 bucks a month. Just learn how to use technology, don't be scared and your life will be much, much better and you'll really be a business owner versus glorified short term rental hosts.
[00:05:42] Speaker C: Are you afraid of saturation? Well, join short term Shop plus and let the saturated be afraid of you.
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[00:06:00] Speaker A: So what AI bot is that?
[00:06:03] Speaker B: Oh Avery, am I giving away the sauce here today?
No. So the it's So I use HostAway system. Yeah, really? We've been using it since 2019, six years now. We really like it. Transition promote a few other ones but the one that we use is called hello host AI and I tried all the different and anyone knows the kind of technique and I've tried all the other different AI bots out there and this one is the best in my opinion.
I recommend it to a lot of my peers in the industry, guys that have like 3, 400 units for these arbitrage. So like really, really scaled operations and even down to like Sebastian uses it, he has like 16 units out. Some other students that have like one or two. So it's super, it's super user friendly. The great thing about it, it actually like learns from all your prior messages so you don't have to go and teach it. It actually just kind of reads everything that you've done before and then learns your property. There's some tuning involved but it's way easier than a lot of the other AI software out there, like bestie or host buddy some of the other ones. So we're huge fans, we know other affiliations and stuff that we're just really big fans of. The founder, her name's Annie and her product. So yeah, if you want an introduction, guys, just reach out to me and I'm happy to.
Great product, Amory. Great product.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Is that the same Annie who has Postco?
[00:07:35] Speaker B: No different.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: No different Annie.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: She's in Canada. And the reason, so the reason I, the only reason I met her was I went to the Host Away User conference in Miami six months ago and they had like a little small booth because they're, you know, it's just husband and wife. And I met them, I was walking, you know, they were like right next to Marriott. So, you know, I was talking to Marriott people. I walked by and then I was like, hey, what do you guys do? And then she showed me. I was like, pretty skeptical. And then she was like, well, we have 20 social rentals and like we do it for our own properties for the past year. I was like, really? Like, yeah. Like, what really sold me was not to make this an AI show. There's no draft mode. What does that mean? Most AI bots out there, it's like it will pre draft a message and you have to actually click it or your VA has to click Step.
They're so confident in their product that it will automatically stand unless you tell it not to. And I was like, wait a minute, it's that good or you trust it to kind of just like live in the wild? It's like, yeah, like we've been using for our own.
And then like, I'm still pretty skeptical. So I gave them like two to trial and then in a week they took everything and then now they, I've like helped double their business basically. So yeah, it's pretty solid.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Well, I'll have to check them out.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: I think you, Luke will, you'll save Luke some time. He can go, you go, hit some, get some more miles in.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he doesn't need to get any more miles in on Thursday. Like a random, you know, middle of the week last week he goes in the mornings, he comes in, you know, like 7 o' clock. Oh, I did 13 today.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Already.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Already 8 o' clock in the morning. He wakes up at 4 and, and gets out the door. But yeah, like, but if he doesn't run, then he is extremely annoying to me. He's got all this energy.
Can you just chill? So we need him to run. But yes, we'll, I'll, I'll hook him up with, with. It's called hello host.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Hello host. AI. Yeah. I'm happy to introduce you to Annie.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: Okay, so 38 that you're using VAs, you're using AI, using all these tools for efficiency. I want to talk a little bit about, like, what are you seeing across 38 properties? And that's what three markets. Philadelphia, the Smokies and the Adirondack. Catskills.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Catskills.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: Catskills. Okay. I don't know my mountain ranges very well.
Okay, so we're seeing. I would like to hear what your synopsis of the quote Airbnb has been. So for me, it's been like we dropped about 10% from the peak, but we're still way above where we started 10 years ago. So it's been for us, more of a blip than a bust. But I would love to hear, because you've got the unique perspective of having both metro market and vacation market. So let's hear about that.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So let me. I'll divide it, right?
Let me divide it a little bit. So Philadelphia folks listening, obviously, major urban center.
We started in Philadelphia in 2019. So we collected almost like six years of history there. And I would say Covid hit March 2020 with this incredible boom, right in 2020, 2021. It was just like nothing was better. It was. It was so good.
And every single year it's come down a little bit. Right. But you know, off a very high level. So it's always been very, very good. And I would say, you know, 2024, very. You know, when I say very good, I'm talking about like 30% plus cash flow margin means that, like, every dollar that comes in 30 plus sets of that is profit. And this is after like all costs. So this is. I'm not talking about revenue.
I won't give. I won't share exact numbers, but they were like way above 30. And like, you know, it's slowly trend down, but it's still very profitable. And, you know, the 23 was great, 24 was great. 25 actually started really good. Jan.
April was very good. And then we had Liberation Day. And, you know, this is the plug of a show.
One or the other. Talk about actual numbers. And we definitely saw a blip. It was like a few weeks where we really paced a lot lower than we did last year.
And that was like, I would say beginning of April to probably the end of April. And then it started coming back, and now we. So May ended up being fine. We were below a little bit on price. The cut price order to get the occupancy. We didn't want to be empty. But June and July are now at pace where we were last Year. So at least for Philadelphia, at least the urban markets, it was, like, definitely some air. It was definitely an air pocket in April that we experienced, and we probably lost a little bit of money there. Not lost money, but we gave up some price to get the occupancy. We wanted to make sure we, you know, we were occupied.
And then we held out for June, July, and later on, and the markets recovered. We could see that shift.
So that's been.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: So.
[00:12:48] Speaker B: That's been fine. So it's kind of very temporary. Smokies and different animals. Smokies. Luckily, you know, Avery, you and your team kind of helped us buy, you know, good properties at good prices and good rates. So our basis is good. So price, you know, we didn't overpay, and our interest rates are crazy.
And it's, you know, it was. It's been so good for so long. It was. It's always been good, right? We got in kind of 20. 21's great. 1 was great. 2 was great. 3 was great. 24 was pretty good. Still, I would say this year we're probably like 50% on a total revenue basis. So say we were like 10k for January for one property, for example. Now we're like 8500. So it's definitely come down, and it's definitely impacted profitability in Smokies. July is the first month. It actually is. Is at the same level as 24. So that's definitely been concerning, and we've done a bunch of stuff to, you know, upgrade the properties and make it better, and we're seeing results of that, but that I'm definitely, you know, concerned about. And then lastly, and I'll be quick on this, the cat skills, we just. We just bought it in June. We closed unit from 2024, went live Labor Day. We're projected 200 for that property. And actual plus book revenue, we're at 178. And we still have all of August that's not booked, and we have two more weekends that aren't booked. So I think we'll be. I think we'll get pretty close to 200. And then our first six weeks, we, like, lower the prices on purpose to get bookings and reviews, so were a little underpriced in the beginning, too. So we feel pretty good about 200. So we. We hit the mark on that, and that will be like a 22% cash on cash return. So that's, you know, 72 can, you know, of profit for the one property. So that one we, you know, so There definitely still opportunity, but it's not like the Smokies were before. You can just kind of buy anything for now. It's definitely a different game.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. You have to pay attention. You have to host well. You have to finance. Right. You have to do all of the things right. For sure.
What size are all.
You don't have to go through every single of your 38 properties. But generally like what does your portfolio look like in terms of property sizes and bedroom counts?
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah, the. So the stuff in Philadelphia, they're. They're just apartments. So they can be from studios. Three bedrooms just depends on the right. What makes it work. That's really for arbitrage if you're interested in that. It's just really what's. And I guess it's kind of the same as properties but buying it's just the rent that you're paying. And then once I'm able to Smokey's. They range from three bedroom pool cabin that we bought from. From you guys or you guys helped us buy back in 24. 23. Sorry, 23.
And then up to you know, a six bedroom that's right into Dollywood.
That one does well. So that's our kind of three to six.
I would say the, the larger ones do better and then the one pool does better. It's like the four bedroom. That's like the. The four. The four bedroom is. Is the one that's struggling. The three or four bedrooms are the one that are struggling without the pool. There's just one. There's so many of them right now being built. So that's definitely an eye. Something that we're keeping an eye on. And then you know we've opted now for like a much better product so. Or a much higher quality product. That's where we want to really invest now. So that house that we just bought, it's. It was. We paid list price. It was $995,000. We put 200 into it in renovations. Furniture make it designed really nice and it. But it'll generate the return. So it's a lot. Kind of a lot more. You have to kind of like not more expensive as a six bedroom.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: 4,000. 4,000 square foot.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Yeah. That's big. That's big. So when you go to. To do these kinds of upgrades. So what are you. What are you upgrading for 200 000. What are you. What are you putting in? What do you.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's an expensive market. So you're gonna. You're gonna. People are gonna laugh at Me and be like man, like you really paid a lot. But you know, we, we put in a hot tub, sauna, but we actually really, you know, we did the concrete slab so we didn't cheat on or anything. Like really, really. Since we own it, we want to make sure that you know, we paid a little bit more now so that we have a better product.
So we did that, redid the outdoor, we redid the floors on certain levels of carpets. We ripped down like nice lvp. We put in an AC, repaint it. So that was really kind of the stuff that changed. And then we spent a lot on design the furniture.
We spent like over 100k on furniture.
We hired a designer.
So we literally invested a lot in design and the guest experience just because we were targeting kind of well to do families that live in New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Boston. Ish. Right. So we wanted to make it a place where like three families could come together. Right. Or like, you know, two, you know, one family, like one multi generational family could all come in and enjoy themselves. And then in the mountain town they're at, which I won't say which one, there's just a lot of like really cool shops and restaurants. So it's really more of an elevated experience. So we wanted to really craft something that would, that would like speak to the guest avatar that we're going for.
We spent a lot of design, we spent like 15k just on the virtual design.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it seems like it's paying.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Off though, first year, you know. Yeah, it is. You know, I, I, I don't, I don't count my, you know, I've been in this game for too long. So, you know, yeah, it's, I think it's good, it's a good product in the mid market. So it definitely validated that our, our thesis.
Did we kind of overpay a little bit? I think we did because in the beginning we didn't, our labor wasn't right and I think we probably like overspent on a few things. I think we probably could have cut it by a little bit. But it's going to work. It's 22% cash on cash in the first year, which you're happy with. And then we'll be able to take a big tax deduction with bonus and section 779. So for our purpose it worked really well and it's validated like this thesis that we have for the cash scales more broadly. So now we can go and grow our portfolio.
That's one area that we can grow our portfolio.
[00:19:27] Speaker C: If you're new to vacation rentals or want to up your game, we are here to help the experts at Short term Shop plus can help guide you in your mission to create memories for your guests at wonderful overnight rentals.
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[00:20:03] Speaker B: Are you.
[00:20:04] Speaker C: Looking for a change?
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[00:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah, love that. So let's talk about how so you're, you found a deal, you found a market.
It's, it is rough out there to, to find deals right now. So on this next one, since you feel like you overpaid a little on the last one, what is your strategy for finding a good deal?
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Call you Avery.
Right, of course.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Other than that, what's your second choice.
[00:21:15] Speaker B: Other than texting? Avery, the. So the, you know, the strategy is I think for us, we want to. So when I say overpaid, I don't, I meant that I don't think we overpay for the property we bought at list but it was another offer. I think we got a price or we got at a fair price. What I meant overpay was like I think we spent too much on the renovation and the labor. We just weren't as like good as we could have been. And we paid like 12k for electrical this time. I could probably do it for like six. I just, I didn't know what I was doing. We made some mistakes but you know, it's validated that like bigger, nicer, two hours from New York like works and then you know, we have now we know like what we want to do with the outdoor. With the outdoor. And I don't mean like just throwing a pickleball but being like very intentional on like what I now know our ideal customer wants for like them and their kids. So it's not like just you know, you know the typical like putting a, put in a pool, putting a pickle ball and it all kind of works. But you know there's specific Things that we understand in the market that, you know, we'll. We'll make sure that we. We can. We can put in for the next property.
For us, having a good property, like something that actually just loves them elevated. I think for us, it's like having the high ceilings, a great view, like, the large windows that I can look out to.
You actually have some distance and look out, like people really like that. The fireplace that, that really speaks to the audience that we're trying to. We're trying to attract, like the real wood just stuff that photographs wall. And it speaks to know the booker that we want to pay $1,000 a night to stay on our buffer.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I. I like that. I. And I. I really like that you said that because there's been. I've seen a lot lately that's kind of been bugging me of people that are like, we see it a lot in, like, the central and south Florida.
See it in western North Carolina, sometimes even in Scottsdale sometimes too, where people will buy these, like,'50s brick ranch homes for like 500,000 and then spend like 250,000 adding all these things to them. I call it amenities soup. Like, you know, plopping all this crap down.
And then at the end of the day, it's like, okay, now you've spent 750,000.
Well, obviously not that much total cash. But, like, for that extra 250 cash that you put down to amenities, you still, still have a brick ranch home. So when you go to sell, you're now you've got 750 into it just to make numbers nice and easy. And for that much, you know, a brick ranch home, a potential buyer, they have better options in terms of architecture and nicer actual houses. And I don't want to use the term lipstick on a pig, but that's what I'm going to do. Like, at the end of the day, you have a brick ranch home that has a lot of lipstick on it. And when you go to sell, your buyer pool can just go buy a nicer, more updated new property with better architecture than buy a brick ranch home that has, like, cool wallpaper and like a pickleball court.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And you hit nail on the head. I think people kind of forget the, you know, going a little technical here, but like, personal property versus real property. Like, you know, when you. And people kind of forget like, the three schools of real estate investing that are the most critical, like cash flow, appreciation, stuffing, appreciate appreciation and attachment.
So when you buy the, you know, and I see this a lot. The 500k, you know, ranch with a flat backyard that abuts to your neighbors too. And then you throw, you know, pickleballs are really loud. Right. And you don't tee off your neighbors and just. Yeah, this amenities too. But just like everything in there. I think one, it's like it's not that intentional because you just have everything. It's easy. You try to like attract everyone and you, you actually don't speak to the person that you want. Right. Like someone they don't really want. Like a big. Wouldn't actually make sense in my market actually. Like there are other things that actually would get me a higher 80, get me a higher rate for example. I think understanding that is really critical. And then yeah, like when you go resell it, like no one's going to pay for that.
No, like no one's going to be able to get financing for 200k of amenities that you put in. You're going to have to sell to a short term rental buyer and you're going to have to kind of pay cash or, or get more to the financing. So you really, you really lock yourself in now. You've really given yourself fewer outs.
So you better make sure it works. And what I see a lot of screw up on or like not do a good job on is their repair maintenance.
Like it's a lot of like these things, they're out, they're outside, they get used heavily.
Your pickleball is one thing where you just repaint it. But these things they, you got to have the right cleaning team, the right maintenance team make sure all this stuff works. Because what happens is like you do this and then you get all the guest complaints about like I'm missing this, this is broken. You don't know if I do to fix that then you know, you have a problem.
So I think people kind of forget. It looks really cool and then the marketing is really cool. But they're, you know, you can't think today. You got to think more. Five years down the line you're going to be operating this because you do something like this. Like you're probably going to own this for a while.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: But I think these are the nuances that like you and I that's been doing it for a long time. Like yeah, for if you're new out there and you're listening to this, like these are things that you want to understand. Like you're not. This is a float.
It's not a float, right?
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And it will. I don't want to Say, I don't want to give the impression that you're not going to make money if you add a bunch of these amenities because you will, it will absolutely impact your income. But you do have to think about on the back end, who's going to buy this and why and what, what you're spending money on. Is it only an income producing amenity or is it an income and value add to the actual value of the property? Amenity. And it's important to make sure that you're balancing those correctly so you don't end up having to sell for less than what you spent on the property later.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: I mean, the one I understand is, you know, the only thing is a pool. An in ground pool would be the appraiser. The appraiser would take that in down. I haven't heard, I've heard mixed things about a pickleball court and all the other stuff doesn't really count from.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So you know, like the kitchen upgrades, bathroom upgrades, flooring, paint, things like that, that counts. A pool even can be a little tricky because you can spend 150,000 on putting in a really nice pool and only get, you know, 50,000 back on the value of the property.
So it's tough, but you just have to pay attention. And you know, it's in some markets is worth more than others. So like in Florida, pools don't really add. I mean pools add a lot more value than. Because everybody has one. So if you've got a property that doesn't have a pool, then you're like kind of lagging behind. But you know, in Tennessee, not necessarily the smokies, but like 10, just Tennessee real estate, a pool only adds like 40,000 because it's not something that like is considered standard.
So it's really easy to spend a lot more on a pool than what the value it actually adds. But it's, I mean we could get way in the weeds on this if we wanted to. But yeah, just be careful about that too because you don't want to have to either be willing to undo all of the changes that you made to make it very short term rentable, like the murals and things like that, or just plan to hold it for an extremely long time.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the point too, right? It's like when you do it like that, you can always stop the neutral terminal.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And so you just kind of have to think of like what your buyer pool is going to be. And also, you know, I personally, as a, as a short term rental buyer would rather Buy a nicer property. Like, let's say, you know, we're talking about mountain markets, like with the high ceilings and the A frames and doing less of the amenity stuff. Still doing some, but then buying something kind of weird and like prettying it up as best you can anyway, that we gotta make sure you're adding value at all times.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think just like the. Just, you know, buying, like the nicer you buy, like it's gonna be just they're gonna appreciate, you're gonna appreciate faster, better and faster. And then the buyer pool is gonna be like, bigger versus, you know, there's a lot of $500,000 row houses, et cetera.
Yeah, they're literally. Yeah.
[00:29:49] Speaker A: Everywhere there's.
[00:29:51] Speaker B: On the furniture.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Yeah. You want like something a little bit unique if you can. If you can get it. And if you can't, then, you know, amenitize. But, you know, try to get that property that's inherently unique first, in my opinion.
Yeah, so. So, Michael, is there anything else that you've learned or experienced over the last few years since the last time we had you, that before we get to the end of our time together, that you feel like our listeners would benefit from hearing about that we haven't talked about?
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Yeah, just. Just. I think two things, right. One is the professionalization in the space, you know, more.
It's not the oversaturation part that I, you know, that I think people should, you know, think about. It's just everyone's getting better, the technology's getting better, right. So you want to do this and just level up your skill and your education on how to run a good short term rental profitably for the long term. Right. If you can do that, there's a lot of information out there, like, Luke does a great job. Like that is now much more of a necessity than, you know, than what it was two years ago. So I think that's a really important point. And I think two is like, I think for me it's nicer, Right. If you want to buy something just like offload a nice thing you can buy that works in your budget, that will cash out for you. But I think we're in a situation now where nicer people that can pay more to go on vacation are still repeated on vacation. That's the kind of guest that. Those are the kind of guests that we target.
So we're looking for combined. So, you know, we're looking to buy nicer stuff. So, you know, you as a operator being more upgrading your own skill set and then, you know, whatever property that you acquire, like it being as nice as you can have it, I think that's two kind of key ingredients to success in a near medium term.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: All right, good advice. Now I'm going to ask you for a little bit more advice because you've already been asked these questions before on this show, but we're going to do it again. What advice would you give 20 year old Michael and Liz? Liz is Michael's wife, guys. She was, but.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Unfortunately. Next time, next time, next time we'll have her on. I'll just take care of our sixth son right now.
20 year old Michael. I would tell him to, so that Michael would have been, you know, 2000 Michael. So he, I would tell him to not go out as much and you know, buy that first property because all the properties that where I was looking at are now like 10x the value. So instead of going out to sit, you know, putting money down for a 3% down payment for an FHA loan, you know, I have a lot more money right now. So that's what I tell them.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: Good advice. And what advice do you have for a new investor who's looking to get started today in 2025?
[00:32:43] Speaker B: The best advice I can give, and I get asked this question a lot, the best advice I can give is like, do the work.
There's really good tax managers with buying short term rentals right now, know focus will come back and there's still plenty of money to be made. Like we just bought our one last year. It's been really well, but it's really elevating your own personal skill set. So, you know, finding the right broker, understanding the data, right, understanding what makes a big market, what makes a good property and then how to operate it. If you can do all that, if you can do that, and it's not that hard, but just takes a little bit of time and dedication. You can still be very successful at sourcing rentals. Only been, you know, people kind of think it's oversaturated, it's over. But Airbnb investing didn't really take off until Covid, right, until like 2020. So we're really kind of, I think we're still really in the third ending of this.
It's harder than it was five years ago, granted. But there's still a ton of opportunity and I'm excited. You know, we continue to look to grow and to invest in space.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: Same here.
And last question, what's your favorite book since last time that's impacted your mindset?
[00:33:56] Speaker B: Oh man, it's. I don't know if I mentioned the last time, but the book that I like to read every single year, it's called the Richest man in Babylon. It's my favorite book and I actually read it to my daughter now. But it's just some parables from back in the day on how to be responsible with money, how to think about money.
And I wish I read that book when I was, I wish 20 year old Michael read that book because my 38 year old Michael wrote that book six years ago and still continues to reread it.
It's a good reminder on good money habits, how to look in the future, how to protect your downside. So I think it's one of the best books. It's four bucks on Amazon, like everyone wants to read that book. It's a great book.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: It is a great one.
And last, how can our listeners follow you if they want to learn more about you or follow your journey?
[00:34:56] Speaker B: Sure. I post a lot on Instagram at Michael Chang BNB M I C H A L C H N G U V so my wife and I post a lot about how we invest, how we build the future for our two young kids. And so if that's someone like you looking to you have a family, looking to start a family and want to invest in the future for your spouse and your children, I hope you'll take a look.
We have some good strategies that we use that I think will be helpful for that.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: All right, so he's at Michael Chang bnb. I'm at the Avery Carl and at the short term shop. And thank you guys so much for listening. Michael, thank you so much for coming on.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Avery, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
