[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to the Short Term show. The show about short term rentals and long term wealth with real property owners hosting real properties who are crushing it.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: In the vacation and short term rental space.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: And here's your host, Avery Carle.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Hey, y' all. Welcome back to another episode of the Short Term Show. It's your host, Avery Carle. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure that if you're watching on YouTube, you hit that subscribe button or hit the subscribe button wherever you're listening to podcasts. And leave us a review. The more reviews we get, the more content we can put out for you guys. So thank you very much for doing that and don't forget to follow us on Instagram at the short term shop or I'm at the Avery Carl and all other social media because we want to hang out with you. Without further ado, got a super cool guest today. Heather, I did not ask you how to pronounce your last name, so if you could do that now.
Okay, that's exactly how it looks. So Heather, she's been investing in Missouri for a while.
Has some really cool things going on that I wanted to share with y' all. I think y' all find it really cool. So anyway, without further ado, Heather, how are you?
[00:01:24] Speaker C: Great. Thanks so much.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for coming on. So can you start off by just telling us a little bit about yourself, what you were doing before you got into real estate and what got you into it?
[00:01:35] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So my husband and I, we've actually been, I guess, entrepreneurs since before we even knew we were entrepreneurs. We bought a business, an auto parts business in our early 20s with my parents, and we built that up over the past. Well, we sold it two years ago, I guess it was, but we owned it for 16 years and learned so much about, about entrepreneurship, business ownership, working with your spouse, working with parents, just partnerships in general.
And when my parents were getting ready to retire, we knew that we didn't want to stay in that business. And real estate had always been something we were interested in and we had been focusing mainly, we thought, on short term rentals. So we, before we sold our business, we started investing here in Branson in some short term rentals.
Bought a leak house first and then kind of just spiraled from there. Started managing for other folks a little bit here and there and then we got into RV parks because we always loved camping. We've been lifelong campers.
We found a piece of property that was an abandoned campground that had been abandoned for a long time and we fell in Love with that and ended up developing that into a glamping and RV resort. We have a long term RV park as well, and we're getting ready to close on another resort here in town in just a few days.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Wow, that's. That's a lot of resorts.
[00:03:11] Speaker C: So.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: Okay, here's where I get hung up with because I love. We've had RVs in the past. We don't have one right now because the kids are just like so busy with activities that we can't really ever go anywhere long term anymore. But we plan to get another one in the future. And I'm sure there's a lot of people out there like me listening. They're like, man, I'd like to do the RV thing. I've got some short term rentals. Like, I think I could do that. But what always stops me or. Well, there's a lot of things that stop me. Mainly laziness because I already know how to do what I'm doing and we.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: Don'T want to start a whole new thing.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: But I'm always like, man, these are like expensive to, to start out with not really knowing what I'm doing. Like, I'd be okay with, you know, $5 million short term rental. I've been doing that for 10 years. I can do that. But jumping into an asset class that I don't know, that kind of starts that expensive scares me a little bit. Can you talk a little bit about how you made that transition and what that looked like?
[00:04:05] Speaker C: Right.
So I think a big part of it was again, being business owners previously. My husband is like, really, really great at underwriting, and that is his lane, thank goodness, because spreadsheets were moved to death.
But we, we are completely opposite in a lot of what we do, which is wonderful for us. So he did a lot of research and understanding our market, understanding the cost of things, and really wrote out a really, very clear underwriting before we started to dive in. And I think that, you know, just like in short term rentals, that is a big mistake that people can make. They get excited about something like, campgrounds are exciting, glamping is exciting, Short term rentals are exciting, but if the numbers don't work in the front, it's not going to work. Right. And so that's where we started. And after pulling some numbers together, we realized, wow, you know, this could really work.
We again, being campers, we're familiar with certain things, but also just, you know, there's a huge community of being able to learn online, different resources, and so I joined a mastermind that is not all focused on RV parks, but really is got a lot of resources from there too. And that gave us the confidence to say, okay, you know, this makes sense, we can do this. We can, we can pull this together. And then we brought in capital partners in order to do that and it's been great. We finished that project. So it's a glamping and RV resort and it's really unique. We wanted to stand out from the rest of what's here in Branson and it is.
We've got 17 glamping sites, 50 full hookup RV sites. We have a coffee shop that's drive up, drive through and walk up. And it's open to the public as well because it's right on the main road.
We have a pizza kitchen that again is open to the public. So we were really thinking of, okay, what is the best way to use this piece of property to its capacity. And I feel like we did that.
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[00:06:43] Speaker B: Many questions because I love all of the different pieces of this. So first let's talk about how did you find the deal and kind of what did that look like? So it's in Branson, right? So I think everyone who's listening to this is going to be familiar with Branson as a tourism market. It's kind of like the Smokies of the Midwest. I hate to make everything about the Smokies, but that's, you know, where I started. So I have to relate everything what I know. So sorry about that. It's rude.
[00:07:07] Speaker C: No, it totally is.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: Okay, so tell me about that first deal.
[00:07:13] Speaker C: So we found it.
We were actually closing on another deal at the closing table, talking to our real estate agent going, you know, someday we're going to have a campground. We'd love to have a campground. And actually the very first property we ever put an offer in on was a campground in Florida on the forgotten coast. But the numbers didn't work out after some, the sellers disclosed some information that made it not work at all. So we backed out of that, which I'm really thankful for now. But we were closing on our first short term rental and mentioned we Want to have a campground someday. And our real estate agent was like, actually, I kind of. I know of one. There's an abandoned campground.
Yeah. And I always go back to like, tell everyone what you're doing. Tell everyone what you want to do. That's how we found a lot of our properties. Our. Another RV park that we have. We found it just by mentioning to other people this is what we're looking for.
So that was how we got it and did a lot of research. Like I said, I think it was like six months before we even put an offer in. But it wasn't on the market at that point. So it was. It had been on and off the market, and as soon as we were ready to put it on, like find the sellers, it was on the market, so we snatched it up right away.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: Wow. Okay, so how much was that first one? Because you said you brought in capital partners. Was that for the actual purchase or just for the upgrades or what did that look like? Like, how many pads, how many sites does it have?
[00:08:38] Speaker C: Yeah, so it. It was abandoned and had been abandoned since 2007. So there was nothing. Like we didn't get to keep anything, including the utilities. We had to put in all new utilities, everything. We actually had to undo the things that were there. The buildings that had holes in the walls and were just, you know, scary. So we had to do an SBA loan because it was a brand new business and we reached out to local banks. That didn't work. And so.
But we did end up doing an SBA loan, which is tough.
We bought the property for a little over 2 million all in completed with everything was 5 million. And we just finished that in October and it has just appraised as completed for 7.8. So that was a win for us.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Love that.
[00:09:28] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And it is. It's 50 full hookup RV sites, 17 glamping tents. We have everything from bell tents at the ground level to treehouse tents with private hot tubs overlooking the golf course. And then we have a few cabins too, that we built. Oh, cool.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: Well, there's one little tiny thing that you just kind of offhandedly said that I want to shine a light on. You said SBA loan. That was tough. Now the Internet says. All the talking heads on the Internet, myself included, I've never done an SBA loan, so I've never talked about it, but I include myself in the talking head. People on the Internet, they'll say, oh, buy a hotel, you just get an SBA loan. Buy a whatever, whatever you Just go get an SBA loan. So, so how hard is it to get an SBA loan? Because you just mentioned it was kind of tough. So let's. I want to hear about that part. I want to hear the dirty details.
[00:10:17] Speaker C: Yeah, it's.
It's a lot of hoops to jump through. Right. Because it's a. It's a government backed loan. There's just so many hoops to jump through. It took us over six months, I think it was closer to eight to actually close on the loan itself, because you've got, you know, all these different tests that they want to do that are unlike anything else that we've ever dealt with. I get that they want to do that, but there's a feasibility study, and one of the things that is, I guess, that you have to think about when you do an SBA is there's a lot of upfront costs that before you even close on the loan or know that you're going to get it, that you have to put out. Like, really, the feasibility study was $10,000. And then, you know, the ground testing, another 12,000. There's just here and there, all these different things. And then engineering, you have to get engineering plans. You know, that's 25, $35,000. So all these things before, that they want to see before they'll even tell you, yes, we will loan on this. So you kind of have to know your risks and know what you have to offer, know what you're building when you go in. So it worked out, but it was a lot longer than we expected. I mean, they told us it was gonna take, you know, four months, and it took a lot longer than that, or I think it was even. I think they told us three. But closing on the property, I mean, these sellers, they wanted to get rid of this property. So we had to do a bridge loan, which thankfully they allowed us to do so that we could close on the property before we even closed on the SBA loan itself.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: Wow. So if you're gonna buy one of these things or buy anything with an SBA loan, you need to plan like, six months until closing.
[00:12:04] Speaker C: Right, Right.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: I think that's really important because I think a lot of us who've just, you know, gotten a bunch of commercial and residential investment loans would not have known that. So that's something important to know, guys, especially if you're trying to do a 1031 exchange to pay pay attention to that.
[00:12:22] Speaker C: Well, and I will say, you know, we had to do an SBA loan because this was not an existing business. I mean, it was, for all intents and purposes, it was just a piece of land. Right. But when we've purchased other things, we've had a fine time going getting a commercial loan from a local bank, and that's usually the way to go. And that's the first place you want to try, because there are a lot of local banks that want help. They know that there's an existing business. If you can show a P and L, you can show, you know, a business plan, and the P and L, they're willing to do that. But because there was nothing there, there's no income coming in at the, you know, from the start. That's part of the reason we had to go sba.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So if you.
If it's an existing business that's actually running, then it's not as difficult. Got it.
[00:13:12] Speaker C: Correct. Yeah. And it depends on what you want to do with it. Obviously, if you're wanting to put, you know, a few million dollars into it, a lot of times that that lender will give you a construction loan, and that'll be fine, but it all depends. Right. And sometimes an SBA is still needed, but a lot of times, and we now try to avoid that at all costs just because time, like, time is money.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: Right, Right, right. So, okay, so you're buying this abandoned one, and how much was it. How much does it cost to buy an abandoned RV park?
[00:13:44] Speaker C: It took. I think it was just over two. I think it was 2.1 million. And this was on. It's on 13 and a half acres in Branson.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Okay. And what were you underwriting this to be able to. To do once you got it up?
[00:14:00] Speaker C: So it was. We underwrote it. How it changed throughout those eight months or whatever that we had, but it's Projected to do 1.4 million a year gross.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay. So that's quite a bit.
And how much were you budgeting to have to put into it to get it to make that much versus how much did you actually end up spending?
[00:14:27] Speaker C: We actually were within our budget, which was amazing. So, I mean, our total happen.
I told you, my husband is really good at underwriting. That's. That's his thing. We want to be conservative. Right. And especially when we're bringing on other part capital partners, we're not trying to do this pie in the sky number. We want to be realistic and conservative and kind of what is that? Under promise over deliver. So I feel like we've. We've been able to do that aside from the Time aspect, it took a lot longer than we wanted. But all in it was with construction.
The SBA fees which are like, I can't remember what they're. They're like 3% and 3% on 5 million is a lot. So that it was total. The total all in was 5 million including the land and construction and everything else.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Okay. Wow.
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[00:16:30] Speaker B: And so what exactly? I know you had to do a lot of things, but so what exactly were you planning to make upgrades to in order to get it to this point of being able to, to do this number?
[00:16:43] Speaker C: I mean it was all new development, so everything was brand new. And we thought, you know, we, we don't want this, we don't want this to be just another campground. We need it to be something. Wow. And we, when we looked at this property, the front half was there. You could kind of barely see where the RV spots might have went a long time ago. But the back half of the property was just completely woods. And I was like, we cannot cut down all these trees. Why don't we put glamping tents here? And so the front half is the RV section, the back half is the glamping section. It's really wooded and beautiful and so we wanted it to be really an elevated experience.
Branson as you know, there's a lot of hills, there's a lot of trees. We're in the Ozarks and a lot of the campgrounds existing were smaller, they're older and so they weren't built to fit these, you know, accommodate 42 foot long RVs with double slide outs and toy haulers. And so that's what we went for. We were like, we're going to do this, we're going to build it for the people that, you know, the growing population of RVers now, and that meant to us also spacing out the RV sites which we could have probably fit more in, but we didn't want it to look like a parking lot, which was another thing. A lot of places will go in, they'll build a new RV site, they'll, you know, clear out everything and then it just looks like a parking lot with no trees. And I fought for every single one of those trees that's still in the RV section. And that's a lot of what we hear feedback on is how wooded it is, how spacious it is, that it looks more like a state park. And, and that's a big compliment. That's what we were going for.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I've, I've found in my own limited experience with RVing that state parks typically have bigger, better sites that feel like you have your own little part of, you know, the, the woods, so to speak. Whereas I places we just kind of stopped on the way to other places sometimes did feel like a big parking lot. And I would always be super bummed when we pulled in, like, oh cool, I'm looking out the window at the next person and it's weird. And so I have, I. And I think all RVers always appreciate having that little bit of privacy around that's really cool. And I love that, that y' all were able to, to create that. So.
Okay, you're up and running now. Up and running since October.
[00:19:07] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Okay. And are you. I know it hasn't been a full year yet and it's. You have, you've got a ramp up period. But are you on track to meet or exceed your original underwriting income?
[00:19:17] Speaker C: Yeah, actually, I think we've been about 10,000 over our monthly expectations so far in the last six months. Again, you know, we, we went through the most dead period of ransom, January and February, where there's really nothing going on. But even then we were over our, our monthly projected numbers. And so far it looks like we're going to continue on that track. The coffee shop was a huge help to it as well because we were going to just build that and lease it out to someone else and let somebody else run a coffee shop. Because I didn't want to run a coffee shop, but here I am running a coffee shop. But it worked out really well. We work with a local coffee roaster and they supply, they wholesale our beans, they trained our staff and that's what I needed. So now it's up and running. Somebody else Is managing it. And it's been. It's been great.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. So adding these two extra income streams, I think is very smart because people are going to be there, they're going to be spending the night. They don't necessarily want to get out and unhook the car to take it to wherever to get coffee or to get pizza or, you know, they're hungry. Like for us, we've got little kids and nobody wants to have to unhook the car and get out and go find something to eat. So having those there for people, it's almost like, you know, the vending machine theory where there's already people that are going to need these things, put these things.
So are those.
Would you just call them kind of extra income streams for the RV park or would they. Do they support themselves independently so they.
[00:20:51] Speaker C: The. Well, you know, that's a good question. The coffee shop does support itself independently, I believe. And I think, you know, as we get into the busier season, we haven't even gotten to the busy season yet. We haven't had one summer yet, so. But just seeing the ramp up and seeing how busy we are on certain holidays, knowing that, you know, it's probably going to be more like this all summer long.
The coffee shop definitely does. The camp store we're doing really well into. I mean, the camp store is the pizza kitchens and the camp store, but we also sell beer and wine and toys and all kinds of stuff. So I think that's going to support itself as well. I haven't ran the numbers on that specifically, but then we've got, you know, golf cart. Golf cart rentals. So that's another stream of income. And the coin operate the laundry facilities. So that's another stream of income. Firewood. And we'll just continue to add more on as we see a fit and a need for those, too.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Love that. And you can get. You can make a ton of money on those camp stores if you've got the right stuff in there.
One of my memories, actually. Well, two memories in our rv. The first one was that we all almost died in Branson taking a wrong turn down very switchbacky road. But another one was we were at Devil's Tower, Wyoming, and we were. I think we were just at like their state park or national park or like whatever the closest RV park was campground. And their camp store had all this cool stuff and they had sarsaparilla, which for those of you who do not know what that is, it's Kind of similar to root beer, but like more old timey. And Luke, my husband, loves root beer, but he will not ever drink it because he is very calorie conscious. And so I go in there and they have all this like, homemade sarsaparilla and root beer. I'm like, oh, man, we are gon party tonight. And I've got this whole armful of these glass bottles. And he calls me like, I call it dad dialing when somebody calls you like a million times in a row. And I'm like, what? My hands are full. And he's like, I just cut my thumb off.
[00:22:50] Speaker C: And so, yeah, I had to drop.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: It all and run back and it was not cut off. He's very dramatic. He just like, he was doing something with a opening a zip tie and his. And it kind of went through the zip tie and then got him in the thumb.
[00:23:05] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: And he couldn't. Couldn't wiggle his thumb. And he's like, why won't my thumb wiggle, Avery? Why won't my thumb wiggle in my brain? I'm like, because you. It seems like you probably cut a tendon. But then I didn't want to tell him that and make him feel. And we were four hours from the nearest hospital. It was a big thing. So anyway, having cool stuff in your.
In your camp store, we do have.
[00:23:26] Speaker C: A first aid kit as well. Just throwing that out there.
We should sell them. Oh, man.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's one of the memories of my life. And the kids were 2 and 4, and it was happening right at bedtime, so they were terrible. Screaming, oh, man. Anyway, fun times.
All right, so let's talk about how running this business with your husband. So my husband and I have been running a business together for 10 years now. Sometimes it's wonderful. Sometimes I want to rip every hair out of his head one by one.
So I would love to hear your advice and experience for our listeners on running a business with your spouse.
[00:24:07] Speaker C: Yeah, thankfully, we have really different personalities in a lot of ways or different. Maybe different strengths as well and different interests. So that right there is helpful. I think if we both had the same interests and strengths, we probably will butt heads more often because we'd both be wanting to do the same thing. But we have also been working together since our early twenties for a long time. You know, raising kids together. You just know each other so well. And.
But one of the things that we have learned to do is be really clear on our roles and responsibilities. So, you know, every time we get something New or do we know that, okay, he's going to be in charge of the numbers, the lending, the underwriting, the construction budget, all those things. And I'm going to be more on the side of the management and the building, the teams and bringing in partners and the social media aspect, all those things.
But there are times when we both go, oh, wait, are you doing this? Am I doing this? And really it's just talking it out, deciding who's going to do it and then letting that person do it and not stepping on their toes. So if he is responsible for something, I need to not question him and know that he's, he's got it under control. And that just takes, you know, time of knowing that when he's going to do something, he's going to do it really well. And when I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to take care of it. So that's a lot of it.
We also, and it's all, it's not always easy, like try to separate work from home and impossible. Especially when you're. We are bad at it. But, but sometimes one of us will be burned out and he might say, hey, I don't want to have work conversations anymore. And then it's okay, totally understand. And that shuts it down, no problem. And I understand we're both get there at different points of the day or the week of the month, but we also just try to be really aware of spending time together and not talking about work or spending time together away from work. We have business meetings in the hot tub. I mean like, you just have to make it creative. So like we have our hot tub time. We'll yell out HCT and go down, grab our coffee and it makes it more fun. Like we get to make it fun. We, we run our own business, right. So it's kind of fun to, to do something different every once in a while than just feel like we're in our offices.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: I love that hot tub time.
[00:26:48] Speaker C: I have a whole bunch of women entrepreneur friends that we, we joke around with the hdd. That's a, that's thing that we do now.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: So I mean, never mind. I'm just not gonna even make that joke.
All right, so business, all business.
Okay. So you just, you jump, you guys jump right into buying a campground. It's going really well. You've got your extra streams of income. Seems like you've kind of got this up and rocking and stabilized. So what's next?
[00:27:19] Speaker C: So we are closing in two days on a another resort Here in Branson, it's a little lake resort. And then we're going to continue to grow, I think, you know, as much as we love short term rentals, we love the hospitality aspect and we love creating unique stays, we just want to keep doing that on a bigger scale. So we are hoping to do another Embers, our glamping resort. We're hoping to do another one of those at some point in a different market and continue growing our RV park and, you know, hotel portfolio. We love, we love the big scale. It's for us, now that we've done it, it's a lot of work, but you get to do all the work at one time versus doing it separately or individually for each unit. So that's how we feel about it. Now we've got to the point where we've kind of built a team and it's easier to do. It's still crazy, but it's a lot of fun. We enjoy it.
[00:28:20] Speaker B: Love that. All right, so before we move on to the last three questions of the show that we ask all of our guests, is there anything about your story that you think our listeners would benefit from hearing that? I have not asked you.
[00:28:34] Speaker C: Not so much about our story. I think it's just one of the things I always like to stress is you don't need to know steps 1 through 10 to do the thing. And that's something that I. I was, I was the brakes. My husband was the gas he wanted. And I'm like, wait, I need to know how to do all the things before we go and jump into this. And that's something that I've learned now. I'm like, all right, we'll figure it out as we go. Obviously, you know, you got to know that your numbers work, you got to know these certain things, but you don't have to know how to operate a short term rental or a glamping resort or an RV park or whatever it is from front to back. Before you take the first step, you, you know, know the first three steps and then make sure that you're surrounded by a community and other people like you and that are doing things that help educate you on the way there.
[00:29:23] Speaker B: Yep. If you wait until you know everything about it, you are never gonna do it. You're never gonna know. Know enough.
[00:29:30] Speaker C: Yeah. And something will change on the way there that you like. There's gonna be a tree in the road. You're gonna have to figure it out along the way anyways.
[00:29:38] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like saying, I need to. I need to know everything about being a parent before I have kids. It's just. You can't do it.
[00:29:43] Speaker C: No. Exactly.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: All right, Heather, first into the road question. What advice would you give 20 year old Heather if you knew then what you know now?
[00:29:56] Speaker C: You don't have to have a lot of money to get started in real estate. You don't have to have, you know, you don't have to. I used to think, and I was in, in a property manager and I saw all these people owning these properties that I managed for them and I thought they must have a lot of money. The money is out there. You can partner with someone. You can be the work and they can be the capital. There's just so many ways to do it. So I would say start, start sooner.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: Great advice. And what advice would you give a new investor who's looking to get started today?
[00:30:33] Speaker C: Surround yourself with people that are doing the things that you want to do. Because a lot of people think that, you know, oh, this, this person's doing all this stuff in real estate, they must be special, they must know this, they must be super smart or they must have these connections. But getting into rooms, whether it's real estate meetups, listening to podcasts, listening to and understanding that they're just people every, we're all just people that are figuring it out along the way.
When you're around people doing what you want to do and it becomes more attainable. Right. And so I think that that is a huge start that was really helpful for us.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Great answer. And last question. What's your favorite book that's impacted your mindset?
[00:31:18] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, I need to read more books. I, I love audiobooks, but I never get through them or I'm just really bad at starting. I think one of them that. And now I'm not going to remember the name of it.
There's one. And I can't remember the name of the book, but it's about like, slowing down and darn it, it's a really popular one right now.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Let's see.
Ruthless Elimination of Hurry.
[00:31:45] Speaker C: That's it.
That's it.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: I got you. I need in the background, the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, guys, by. Who is this? By.
Okay. Amazon wants me to enter a code. Never mind.
[00:32:00] Speaker C: It's great. It's a great book. I got through, like the first chapter and I was, I wanted to start it all over again and I really probably should because it's, it's one of those constant reminders that you need that, you know, we're here to enjoy what we do.
And, you know, sometimes enjoying the slow lane is, is okay. Enjoying the, the long line in the grocery store is okay. Which, it doesn't make any sense to me, but probably a good practice.
[00:32:28] Speaker B: All right, awesome. Well, Heather, thank you so much for coming on. If our listeners want to find you and follow you, how can they do that?
[00:32:35] Speaker C: Yep. I am on Instagram @roaminghome. Heather and Heather Muir on Facebook.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: Thank you very much, guys. Go give her a follow. Heather, thank you so much for coming on.
[00:32:46] Speaker C: You're welcome. Thanks, Avery.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: Sam.
