[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to the Short Term show. The show about short term rentals and long term wealth with real property owners hosting real properties who are crushing it in the vacation and short term rental space.
And here's your host, Avery Carle.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Hey all, welcome back to another episode of the Short Term Show. I'm your host, Avery Carle and please be sure before I get to the the rest of the show that you leave us a five star review. Wherever you listen to podcasts, the more reviews we get, the more content we can bring you. Also, we are hiring real estate agents in the Poconos, the Smokies, Orlando and Park City right now. So if you think you're a fit for that, email
[email protected] we look forward to hearing from you. Anyway, back to the episode. So today we have Chad Gallagher. He is a very interesting real estate entrepreneur. He's got several companies, he's a real estate investor. So we are going to hear his story today. How's it going, Chad?
[00:01:11] Speaker C: It's going great.
Thanks for having me.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for coming on. So can you just give our listeners a little bit of backstory about who you are and what you do?
[00:01:22] Speaker C: Yeah. So original background is in tech, so I actually have an engineering background, got into real estate about a decade ago.
I have acquired a kind of a wide ranging portfolio of properties.
We started out investing in basically tax sales. So we would buy a, you know, a single family home in a tax sale.
These are like C class properties.
And what happened was we then needed to start a property management company to kind of manage these. We started managing stuff for other people.
Eventually we built that to managing about 5,000 properties across the mid Atlantic. We were like probably the largest mid Atlantic property management company.
We sold that company.
My best friend and I kind of do everything together.
And then what happened was when the and why this show is kind of interesting is all that was basically long term real estate, both managing long term and investing in long term. But about three years ago how we used to buy properties were these tax sales that they weren't selling properties at tax sales because post Covid the kind of that tax sale just didn't really happen anymore. I mean it's now starting to again but didn't really happen for a couple of years.
Plus you had a huge equity increase in value in kind of what we used to buy. And so we decided to stop buying it and we wanted to figure out like what to buy next.
And we got really interested both because of bonus depreciation hitting at a Much higher percentage as well as we just had this fascination with more what I call like iconic properties.
So I have properties that we think kind of stand the test of time and that are typically unique. So not cookie cutter, oftentimes sit on a bunch of land and oftentimes the land is unique.
And so we've acquired now three properties like that over the last four to five years. These are all kind of like high end properties I can kind of go through.
But yeah, we're, we're real estate entrepreneurs. We also own a painting company that services real estate people called Cover it painting with about 40 painters in that company and growing. So we love starting. I guess to sum up what I do, we love starting both like service based companies for real estate folks and then also investing in real estate with kind of somewhere where we feel like maybe we have a competitive advantage.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Love that. I think it's very, very smart to start with where you know your competitive advantage is going to be instead of just like looking for a list on the Internet that says best places to invest. Okay, let me do that.
So I think that's very wise. So I want to hear a little bit about your short term rental portfolio specifically. So I want to hear how many doors, where are they? The whole thing.
[00:04:21] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So it's three properties which it's funny because we, we live in the world of big numbers. So most of our companies are larger portfolios but each one is wildly meaningful actually to what we do because these are really expensive properties that actually spin off a lot of cash. So the first property we bought is called the Bay Break. It is a property that sits in Rock Hall, Maryland. So on the eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay, on five acres, call it maybe like a quarter mile of water frontage. The actual open Chesapeake Bay about maybe call it 10,000 square ft and about nine bedrooms. So it is truly a high end property.
And fun fact, it was actually built by the folks who own the patent, the stock ticker that you see.
Yeah, so it, it, you know, it's a couple hours from New York City. It's actually, actually not that far of a drive from New York.
So it sits at, you know, it's about a, about an hour from Baltimore, about an hour from Philly.
This, it's kind of quaint little town on the Eastern Shore.
And so we rent that out.
Our family gets to stay there about four times a year.
And it's crazy. Like you wouldn't think a property like that would cash flow but, but it does.
And so that's been a really good purchase for us. The second property is actually a winery.
So it's in also on the Chesapeake Bay in a city called Chesapeake City, Maryland. Property is called Bohemia Manor Farm.
It sits on about 400 acres, about a mile of water frontage.
It has a like a 12,000 square foot manor house with about 12 bedrooms and then also a winemaker cottage. And we're adding more kind of doors to that property.
It's a wedding venue, we make wine there, beach bar.
We bought it kind of distressed, so which sounds weird. It's a beautiful property but the past owners weren't really making money from it. So.
And then the newest property we bought is actually where I'm from, Lancaster, Pennsylvania and it sits on a river and is a very historic piece of property that we, we feel can cater well towards people who kind of tourists that come into Lancaster. These are typically older folks and the property is historic. So it will then that we just, we just acquired that or in the process of acquiring that third one. So that's our portfolio. And yeah, I think we want to do more. I think our aim, how we believe actually in all things real estate but for sure on the short term side is we don't flip anything. We want to hold, we want to buy stuff that we want to hold for like generations. And so when you think about it that way, it's less about trying to buy into trends or you know, pick something up and kind of resell it and it's more about again I always use the word iconic real estate. We want, we want real estate that we feel like you can't build more of and we want to be able to share that with, with people.
[00:07:59] Speaker B: Okay, love that.
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[00:08:37] Speaker B: So I want to hear more about this. The first one with the quarter mile of waterfront on the the Chesapeake Bay, the nine, nine bedroom one. So what is something like that cost versus what is the rough gross income on that? Because I, I like the idea of having a few really big, high, high income generating properties and like you said, iconic I think is a good word to use for that because I'VE got, you know, a lot of little stuff. I mean I've got everything from a studio to a five bed. I don't have anything as big as what you're talking about, but I do like the potential efficiency of having fewer properties. It's the same tasks that you're completing whether you have a one bedroom or a 10 bedroom. So I'd be really interested to hear, you know, what those numbers look like.
[00:09:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I think what you said is right.
I think the downside is that you didn't mention is just obviously the risk profile is higher. So you know, up till now most, and I'll give you the numbers in this property but you know, just put in perspective, like most real estate I've bought in my life, probably 100 grand is, is on the higher end of prices we've paid. So you know, most of our stuff is single family homes. We did, we have bought a bunch of multifamily but even the multi family, you know, we buy a three unit for 45 grand and a tax sale. So.
And what's great about that is it's just a lower risk profile. I mean if you make a mistake you can kind of get out of it pretty easily. This. So this property we acquired for $2 million.
So definitely a more expensive piece of property.
We did not have a pool or a dock and we also added about three bedrooms.
So fairly significant amount of construction.
So probably, I don't know, easily over 200 grand in construction and then. But yeah, even with all that being said now obviously we got a mortgage on that at a time when mortgage rates were lower. But we are, you know, it's cash flowing now and you know, revenue, it is a bit variable year to year, you know, when, when kind of smaller weddings weren't going on. A property like this doesn't do quite as well because it does really well for that person who wants to have like that intimate 25 person wedding. Those kind of things actually work really well at this kind of property.
But yeah, I mean we're, we're netting revenue north of 300k.
Yeah, it's doing really well for us.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Okay, love that. And now I want to move on to the winery because that has some different, different business aspects of it. So how many people does that sleep?
[00:11:24] Speaker C: Yeah, so that slips well all in. There's about 16 rooms on the property across two houses and our goal is to add another like 15 to 30 doors on top of that across like cottages.
And that one's a little unique because it's a Combination of weddings where someone rents out the whole facility.
But then we're also seeing people, you know, on Thanksgiving people come with multi generations and rent out the property.
Actually both properties kind of share this where it's, it just does really well with you know, gatherings around multi generations just do really well. Obviously weddings fall in that. But. But anniversaries holidays. And it's not just the holidays. You'd think we see a lot of people who celebrate holidays that you wouldn't even think of either. There may be different ethnicities that are celebrating a holiday. It's not a kind of a traditional American holiday. But it brings together a lot of different folks company off sites. So we see that sometimes.
And now that property is much more complicated because it's almost like running a couple different businesses on the land. So we have, you know, a restaurant and kind of wine beach bar. We have a whole wedding business.
We have also the wine business.
Whereas. And a whole bunch of employees. Whereas the, the first property I mentioned, it's just a short term rental. The sense of no employees.
You know, we market on the various sites and it does really well for us.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Okay, great. So something else that you have mentioned a few times that I think our listeners would benefit from hearing about that we haven't really had anyone talk about on the show yet is buying properties at tax sale. Now obviously properties that are on tax sales are probably not going to be stuff that you want a short term rent in most cases, maybe somewhere. Never say never but in my experience are probably not going to be a short term rental property. It'd be a long term. But what's the process for a finding what kind of properties are going to be at the tax sale and then be actually purchasing, you know, one, one.
[00:13:43] Speaker C: Takeaway in general in real estate is that you always, you always. I always get excited when the market is compressed, when it's not an open free flowing market. So if, if someone's listing a property for sale and they say look I, you know, I've got three months to sell it and it's on the MLS and it's open for all bidders, it doesn't mean you can't make money but it's, you know, it's going to generate the top of what the market will pay for that asset.
Anytime you can find a chance to, I think acquire something that doesn't have access to the open market, I think that's a advantageous way to acquire real estate. So you know, and actually all these properties kind of fit in that lens One way, shape or form on the tax sales side of things, to answer your question, you know, there's actually lots of different types of tax sales and they're different by state. So in the state of Pennsylvania, they have these things called judicial sales, which are basically, you haven't paid your taxes for a couple years and now the city is basically had enough of you not paying your taxes and says, look, we're gonna get our taxes some way, so we're gonna actually sell your property on the market. The sell before that, two years in, is called the upset sale. Which that sale, the buyer actually acquires the liens on the property. So if there's any mortgages or anything like that, the acquirer would acquire. So at the upset sale, you actually see some really nice properties sold at the upset sale for one reason or another, sometimes just a mistake, sometimes someone just acquired an asset and just forgot to pay the taxes.
The state of Pennsylvania will sell a property at the upset sale.
Only two years of missed taxes can lead a property to be sold. So that can actually go by pretty quick. Maybe you acquired a property or just someone forgot to pay the taxes and liens come with it. So a bank may have a mortgage, but may not even be upset with it being sold because the acquirer also acquires that mortgage with the property.
So the bank won't be happy. But you do see some decent properties. How you find out about these things is every city, at least in Pennsylvania, does these sales once a year. And so you can kind of look up on their site when their sale is.
And what's most fascinating is, and this is starting to change a little bit, but at least when we were doing it, you had to be there in person at the sale.
It was not an online sale. You had to be in person and you had to actually pay either through a money order or cash.
And so what that meant was it just really limits the amount of pool of, you know, the number of folks who are bidding on this is much shorter than normal.
And then. And then for the other two properties we bought while they weren't at tax sales, the first one was the beginning of COVID when Covid had just hit. And so people were doing, you know, the tours were being given with everyone having a mask on and lots of different rules about what you could do.
Banks were not lending out money easily, and we gave our offer with no financial contingencies tied to it. So. And then the last one that I mentioned was a distressed property. So it wasn't a tax sale, but it wasn't making money, which is really hard to get a bank loan on. And so we ended up raising private money to acquire the property.
So I think, I guess the theme I was trying to get at here is one, I think they're a really interesting way to acquire properties is to think about where are things potentially being sold that could maybe be short term rentals that don't ever hit the open market. Actually the third one, same thing, I bought it directly from the owner so it never made it to the mls. We worked out a deal directly. So it kind of seems to be a theme of how we try to acquire is like do things before it hits the open market.
And in terms of best practices, I would say once you kind of know where you want to invest, it's all about just digging in and finding out where you know. All these cities usually have on their websites information about tax sales and then oftentimes owners you can just kind of work with directly.
And you know, in the same way we're acquiring these kind of like iconic properties, they're also a little bit tricky to evaluate and maybe a little tricky to sell sell. And so I think we have an advantage by being able to say look, we can get this deal done quickly.
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[00:19:22] Speaker B: And so you have or you've acquired over your lifetime over 200 long term rentals.
[00:19:28] Speaker C: That's correct. Okay.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: And all through the tax sale strategy or all different ways?
[00:19:33] Speaker C: Yeah, not all.
We ran a property management company. Sometimes our clients would want to sell quickly so we bought, we bought some through the management company clients.
We actually bought some that were just on the open mls.
We've had some friends who've wanted to sell us properties along the way.
So it's, it's a wide variety. I'd say tax sales make up maybe, I don't know, 60% of the portfolio.
And yeah, we, we kind of consider ourselves like opportunistic buyers. So you know, over the last five years, the kind of stuff we used to buy, we just haven't really been buying much now. But we definitely win the future. We always think that like, you know, people, people always ask me like, are you buying? And I'm like, well, once we started buying, we're kind of always buying. And you know, just because we haven't bought doesn't mean we're not buying, it just means.
Right, right. So we think that like we're always buyers and, and we always want to have funds, maybe not sitting in cash in a bank, but always have the ability to make a deal happen if a deal comes our way, really at all times. And that kind of continues on today.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: All right, and are all of your long terms in Pennsylvania? Are they all over the mid Atlantic?
[00:20:52] Speaker C: Basically all in Maryland, sorry, all in Pennsylvania. We do own two in Baltimore, but we have found now they are spread out. So everything from Pittsburgh to Scranton.
So kind of all across the state for those that don't know the state, but across the state.
But again, we are, we had, we had a company that operated in all those cities. So we felt like we had a competitive advantage of kind of knowing people and getting deal sourcing that maybe other folks didn't have, whether that be wholesalers or off market properties.
So we've been, you know, pretty successful in kind of finding good deals.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Okay, so what's next then? So you've got a few hundred long terms, you've got these big short terms and some of them have, you know, other businesses attached to them. So what is your not planned? Because do any of us really have a plan? What's your strategy or next thing that you're potentially looking to do?
[00:21:50] Speaker C: We are doing a couple things. So we're investing passively with builders now.
So now that we're, we have a painting company, we're doing a lot of painting for builders, which means we're getting to learn, you know, different builders that we like and don't like and ones that we think have an advantage. So we're, we're putting some money in where we're not maybe actively managing this stuff.
We're continuing going down this iconic real estate route. So the beauty of iconic real estate I think is like you don't need to acquire a lot. I mean these can, these are all million dollar to you know, tens of millions of dollars properties. So I think that over the next decade we'll try to acquire another, probably three to five of those. And yeah, I mean, I think we're, we also try to be very opportunistic. So we're always just thinking about where the world's going. But we like this, this concept of, you know, I think one thing I've learned about in business is that when you can do things in business that others can't do, it is advantageous. And you know, the thing about kind of more complicated bigger properties is that it, it naturally the loans are tougher to get, the deals are more complicated, the negotiating is more complicated. All that complexity I think leads to more opportunity too. So I think we're excited about kind of building that out and kind of seeing where it goes.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: All right, love that.
Well, we're coming to the end of our time together and we ask every guest the same three questions. But before we do that, is there anything about your journey or your story that you feel like our listeners would benefit from hearing that we haven't covered?
[00:23:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I'll throw two things at you. One is I, I continue to, to feel this way, and I always have, is that the absolute best return in real estate you'll ever have is to add a bedroom to a property.
And I'm sure other, maybe other guests have mentioned this before, but I think we've added bedrooms now to maybe like 15 or or so at least different properties.
So it's kind of like want to become one of our things is like now it's so bad. When I walk properties, people know that and they're always kind of joking me like, where are you gonna have it? We've, we've converted closets into like bunk rooms. We've, we've done all sorts of kind of fun stuff that I think you can do in kind of the, in particular short term side where you have rooms that my maybe were originally meant a certain way but from a short term perspective just don't make sense as anything other than a bedroom. So we love that.
The other thing we love doing is like building a brand. Like we really, I really believe that when you build a brand and then we'll, we'll, we'll have like shirts that have our brand on it. We'll have signage with the brand on it. I think it, people just, you know, they're not used to seeing brands in real estate.
And so when you, when you name something and then really dig into it and create a brand around it in particular. The bigger the project, the more you can do that for sure.
I think people, it's just, it's very well received.
I think people just take you more seriously. And so we're, we're really big into like doubling down and creating brands and then trying to build out synergies. So like right now we have three properties.
I don't think we'll stop there. I think we see that by having, you know, five to ten, it will allow us to self manage them with one to two VAs, kind of doing everything where with just one to two properties we can't really do that. So you know, I can see us not just having each property having a brand to it, but even the whole portfolio having a brand. And I actually think that's like really meaningful.
And I've seen that as we build our companies, our different things we've sold.
Brands matter, brands matter in life.
You know, when you go to Disney World, you feel the brand front and center and it elicits a certain kind of emotion and people respect that. And so we try to do that in our different companies.
I think maybe enough people don't talk about that like they want to talk about the numbers and they want to optimize spreadsheets, but I think sometimes they miss that. Like there's a human element here that can be really built out in a special way.
[00:26:06] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think that's, that's very good advice. And about to ask you for some more advice. So first question of the final three of the show. What advice would you give 20 year old Chad if you knew then what you know now?
[00:26:19] Speaker C: I think, look, the, the, the day to day roller coaster of being an entrepreneur, it, it never ceases to amaze me.
And I think even today my wife actually gives better advice at this point than I do because she's seen the journey kind of sitting next to me. I think, you know, when you have a job, you know, you work at Starbucks, you get paid every day. The ups and downs just, they may feel that high, but they're just not, you know, you don't have these ups and downs. You do in the entrepreneur world, you do in the investing world. And I think, I think the advice would just be stay the course and you know, don't let the downs disappoint you day to day. I, you know, I get, you know, just as frustrated as anybody.
But you know, when you think long term, you know, it's short term real estate, but it's really long term. Right. You're trying to build long term wealth.
The, the ups and the downs in, in hindsight aren't actually that high and they actually aren't that low. And what you're really building is this kind of like, you know, upward trajectory. I think just trying to keep that in mind and surrounding yourself, maybe this is the other point of it, is surrounding yourself with people that are up for that journey.
I know it sounds crazy, but like, my wife is just really good about supporting the journey.
You know, even over the last weekend, one of our businesses had like a really tough day and everything's be fine, but, you know, and a day later, one of our businesses had like a great day and, you know, she's just really good to remind me like, this is how it goes. And I think I'd been in relationships before my wife where I just didn't quite understand the, the entrepreneur journey as well. And I think that having that support staff, not staff, support system around you and close friends that understand this journey is going to be a certain way, I think is really important.
And I've been lucky enough to find those people, but some of those people weren't around me when I was 20. So maybe the advice to some of your questions, this is a very long answer, but it's like the faster you can find the support system around you that can support an entrepreneurial journey.
Think it's just like, goes a long way.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: I definitely agree with that. And so this one's kind of along the same lines as the last one. But what, as an experienced investor like yourself, what advice do you have for a new investor who's looking to get started today in 2025?
[00:28:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I get asked this all the time. We run a, a very large event here in Pennsylvania. We get a, you know, huge crowd, comes out once a month.
And I meet like, new people will cycle through there all the time. So I get to meet a lot of investors. I say the exact same thing all the time. I think that your entrepreneurial journey in real estate begins when you close your first real estate deal.
And what I encourage people to do is to figure out how can you acquire a property that is based on whatever economic means you have and also as low risk as humanly possible just to kick your journey off. Because the difference between being a real estate investor and having a property and not having a property is like everything. And every book you read and every podcast you listen to, it just hits so much more when you can relate it into your own journey. And so I just encourage people, you know, the, the counter to this is, I'll meet people who will be saying, yeah, I've been researching for a year and a half to try to find a house or whatever or two years or three years or I've been thinking about investing in real estate for five years and I kind of think like, and this is like really hard advice to hear I think sometimes, but I kind of think it's like a waste of time and that you know, at some point you just, you need, if you're going to invest in real estate, you got to, you got to buy a house or a property or a boat or something that kind of, it's going to kick off, kickstart your journey. And there's so many ways to do it with partners or buy a small house or buy something. But yeah, I just think, I think you gotta get started. That's, that's the name of the game.
And until you do, it's, you know, I don't know, it'd be like reading about how to be a Hollywood actor, but having never acted before, how's that the game? How can you relate to it? Right? How can you, how can you relate to being a major league baseball player if you've never even played baseball before? At some point you gotta play the game for, for things to make sense.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: Great advice and last question. What's your favorite book that's impacted your mindset?
[00:31:06] Speaker C: Yeah, so look, there's tons of classic ones, but the one I always give that most people haven't don't think about from a real estate context is called the Long Tail.
And so this book completely changed my mindset in life in terms of. So the whole concept is if you think about what kind of technology has done and the Internet, there's all these different businesses that are now based on the backbone of technology that couldn't exist before. So examples of that would be like Netflix or Amazon, which make tons of money aggregating what's called the long tail of demand.
And so every business wants to go after hits.
So if you were, let's just say you were a concert venue, every concert venue would love to hold Coldplay at its venue. This is top of mind for me because we were turning Bohemian Manifold into a concert venue. So I'm thinking about, you know, concerts now. So everybody wants the, the hit to go after. Every business wants to, to land the biggest deal.
But it, but if you aggregate the long tail, which is the smaller, whatever it is, the smaller clients, the smaller opportunities, you think about what we did on our long term rentals we aggregated a lot of very cheap properties.
If you aggregate them together, you can build incredible wealth, you can build incredible companies.
And so, and a lot of times that wasn't possible decades ago because of the lack of technology infrastructure and the lack of other companies that can kind of service these different business models. So, you know, I guess in the short term rental sphere, think about like how you could aggregate a portfolio of maybe cheaper properties that maybe couldn't have even been short term rentals a decade ago. And now they could be. And each one, it might not cost that much and give you that much revenue. You even mentioned this, that you know, you have a lot of properties that, that aren't, you know, these huge. But that's okay because in aggregate you can, there's actually a lot more of these out there and you can actually build a portfolio potentially easier than you can by going after kind of the big hits. This is funny because it's a bit counterintuitive to my kind of like iconic real estate thesis right now. But the Long Tail, if you haven't read the Long Tail, it's a must read it when it came out, it was like literally revolutionized my thought process. And all the companies it sites are all like billion dollar plus companies and it wrote it at a time when they were just getting started.
Things like Netflix and Amazon. So it's a great read and just gets you thinking about kind of aggregating demand in a way that's a little different than maybe most people think about it.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: Right. Well, I have not read that one. Nobody's recommended that one yet on the show, so I'll have to check that out. Put it on my list.
[00:34:05] Speaker C: Awesome. Yeah, I mean, look, everyone talks about Robert Kiyosaki and we are a big fan of four quadrants and in various real estate books. But I think sometimes getting some enlightenment out of non real estate. I love taking non real estate business and applying it to real estate. I think that's like been a huge success of ours is that we really, we've, we've worked in other businesses. We love hiring people that don't have real estate experience to, to kind of look at real estate from a different lens than maybe others do.
[00:34:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree.
[00:34:38] Speaker C: Love that.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: All right, so Chad, thank you for coming on the show. If our listeners want to give you a follow. How can they do that?
[00:34:45] Speaker C: Yeah, so on many different channels it's Real estate Hackers is kind of our handle, I guess.
Or on Facebook, it's just. Chad Gallagher.
We try to put out content you know, once a week or so on different channels around different things.
And, yeah, if you're in Pennsylvania, come hit us up. We have a bunch of events that we do for free to meet people.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: All right, well, guys, go give Chad a follow. I, as always, am at the Avery Carl and at the short term shop on Instagram, and we will catch you guys on the next episode. Thanks so much, Chad.
[00:35:23] Speaker C: Thanks. See you guys.
