[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to the Short Term Show. The show about short term rentals and long term wealth with real property owners hosting real properties who are crushing it in the vacation and short term rental space.
And here's your host, Avery Carle.
Hey y'.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: All. Welcome back to another episode of the Short Term Show. Today we're going to introduce you to a luxury market that has quickly become one of my favorites. It is Sedona, Arizona, and also to Flagstaff, Arizona, which is a little less luxury than Sedona, but everybody gets so caught up in Scottsdale all the time that they forget that there are other great markets in Arizona. So we have our expert Arizona agent who covers all three of those markets. By the way, Leslie Carbajal here to tell us all about these markets. How's it going, Leslie?
[00:01:01] Speaker C: I'm going. It's going well, thank you.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Good.
[00:01:05] Speaker C: I love speaking about Sedona because I feel like it's a missed market. Flagstaff as well, 40 minutes apart. So I mean, you can't go wrong choosing one versus the other and doing day trips to the other side of the mountain. So I love the area. It's gorgeous. And I'm ready to talk all things to Donuth Lifestyle.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, before we do that, we haven't had you on the big show in a little while since we did our Scottsdale miniseries, which guys, check that out. If you haven't checked it out, we've got 10 episodes on buying a short term rental in Scottsdale that we interviewed Leslie for and a bunch of short term rental owners in Scottsdale. So definitely check that out if you have not. But Leslie, just reintroduce yourself to our audience and tell us a little bit about yourself and your background.
[00:01:49] Speaker C: Yeah. So I'm Leslie Carbajal, born and raised in Arizona. So I'm a native, AKA unicorn. I guess it's like a term now.
I love all things about my market. I'm super familiar with anywhere from Tucson, which I do cover as well. It's also a forgotten part of my market all the way up to the northern areas like Sedona and Flagstaff.
I became a lot of people don't know until I have my conversations with clients. But I was a client of the short term shop before I actually was an agent with the short term shop. So I have been on both sides and I've experienced all of the wonderful things that the short term shop has been able to teach me. And now I get to teach clients. So that's kind of like a little fun fact. And when I tell Clients that they're like, oh, it's so amazing. So I love.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: Well, we are so happy to have you, and thank you for being on the team for so long. It's been a several, several years now.
[00:02:52] Speaker C: Yeah, we're all getting old. It's been a pleasure. I mean, it's just.
You've changed my life, Avery.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Oh, that is very, very sweet. I'm happy to hear that. So let's talk about Sedona. So what for those who don't know, some of us southeasterners, like, don't know anything about Sedona. So tell us what it is. Why do people go there? What's cool in Sedona?
[00:03:14] Speaker C: I mean, it's all outdoorsy. So anyone that loves to be outdoors, hiking, just being. Being in the mountains, and it's very spiritual as well. So there's a spiritual side of Sedona. But I think what draws people the most, the allure, is the red rocks. It's just breathtaking.
I never get tired of it. I have been in Sedona since I was a child, and the drive never gets old, which is why I don't mind doing it. And as soon as you enter, it's. It's just like a. I say it's like a postcard. It's so picturesque, and it never changes.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: I.
[00:03:54] Speaker C: It's like the sun hits it perfectly.
So, you know, when I connect with people and they're open to just exploring different areas, maybe outside of Scottsdale or, you know, also include Scottsdale, but explore other areas as well.
Sedona is one that I always mention. I always do mention Flagstaff as well.
It's just when I'm comparing the two, Sedona wins. I mean, it's breathtaking. So the allure and the appeal is really the red rocks. It feels majestic, and it's super close to Flagstaff. So if you're interested in snow, but you also want luxury, Sedona is the place to be.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Okay, so luxury. Let's talk about that. What is. What would you say is the entry price point to get into Sedona?
[00:04:45] Speaker C: I always say it's about a million. I mean, can you find something a million and less? Absolutely.
They are harder to come by, and they might just be smaller, maybe kind of like a peekaboo view of the red rocks.
But a million and above is typically where most people land when they're purchasing in Sedona. And it all varies in specific location.
Whether or not you have views. If they're right in your face, we're probably going to pay a little bit more for that.
Pools are really hard to come by. When I speak to the local realtors in the area, they're like, I don't understand what all the appeal is. But honestly, when we're looking at revenue data, US Investors know that if you don't have a pool, it's, it's probably, it should probably be on the agenda to add one. It increases revenue potential by at least 50% just by having a pool.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Oh, wow, 50% because nobody has one.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Okay. I didn't realize that because in Scottsdale everything has a pool.
[00:05:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, if, if it doesn't have a pool, just move on. There's no need to, you know, try and build one. But in Sedona, you're not going to find very many that are available, that are on the market become available with a pool. So a lot of my clients, you know, we look for properties that can accommodate building one. I will say building pools, it is pricey.
You could build a pool in Scottsdale for at minimum 30k and, you know, pretty decent.
In Sedona, it's double. It's like at least 70 and it's zero bells and whistles. Just very, very, you know, cookie cutter small. Small is fine in Sedona, but you don't, you don't get a lot for what you're paying. Only because the dirt and the rock is so much more difficult for excavating. So you're paying a lot more.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Okay, interesting. All right, so we're looking for a pool. How big do we have to go do small ones work? Is there a certain size that works better than others or we can kind of adjust based on budget.
[00:06:53] Speaker C: I mean, you definitely don't need a diving pool in Sedona.
The reason too is for cost factors and just maintenance.
You definitely want a heated pool. In Scottsdale, that's, that's also an upgraded amenity and a lot of people ask for it, but in Sedona it's a non negotiable. You have to have a heated pool. The cloud, it's, it's like at least 20 degrees cooler. Flagstaff is a good 30. So I mean, the higher you go, the cooler it is. Um, so yeah, it's like 15 to 20 degrees cooler. And you know, in fall and winter it's, it get, it gets pretty cold. There's snow.
You get snow in Sedona? Not as much as Flagstaff. You do. You definitely get some snow. So it definitely did not realize that. Yeah.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: So in terms of property type and Size. Are these typically going to be single families? Are there condos, small properties, big properties? What do we typically see?
[00:07:53] Speaker C: Average is right around maybe square feet. You know, I've seen two bedroom, two bathroom that are priced in, you know, $1.2 million. So I mean, you might be paying a little bit more than what you would in the Scottsdale area, but generally it's about three to four bedrooms is kind of where it's at. You'll see more three bedroom opportunities than four.
Higher the bedroom count, the better. We really want to stick to single friendly only because HOAs and condos and things like that. HOAs are not super friendly for short term rentals in the Sedona area. So I say steer clear. There is no a new exception though.
The village of Oak Creek is, is an area that has an hoa and they actually just overturned the ruling since like March of 2026.
They now no longer are able to restrict short term rentals.
So while that's a single family community that's in an hoa, they now allow short term rentals. So So a little bit of an exception for that area. But generally I would say let's just steer clear of hoas.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Okay, that makes sense. And that's a good segue into my next question. So what are the regulations in Sedona for short term rentals?
[00:09:20] Speaker C: It's pretty much similar to Scottsdale now. I mean, the guidelines are all pretty much the same. It's a $250 registration fee per property per calendar year.
Small, small changes.
You know, they have like a dark out towards the evening, so no lights on. The bistro lights, they're fine up until it gets extremely dark outside. And then they just want it to be the natural light coming from the stars. So little, small changes like that, trash cans are a big thing. There's javelina up in the area and you know, elk and you know, things like that. So the trash cans need to be brought in after trash pickup and you know, brought out just, you know, the evening before trash day. So there's a lot of companies that can help with kind of bringing in and out the trash cans on days and things like that. So you just want to.
Noise is a big thing. They do have a noise ordinance very similar to Scottsdale.
All easy things, just things to be aware of, specifically with neighbors.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Okay, that makes sense. So there's no caps on number of rentals or restrictions really of any kind.
Wow, okay. Because I remember years ago looking at that briefly, like in 2020, and they were kind of Fighting it. But I think the entire state of Arizona is now very short term rental friendly. Right?
[00:10:56] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there's that.
If you go on the websites to the cities and it's just, you know, Mesa, Tempe, Scottsdale, Sedona, Flagstaff, it's very easy. It's very right in your face.
You know, all of their ordinances are just kind of laid out for you. There's no guesswork, even just like following the links to register the property, the TPT license, you know, we do have to get that. We do have to have it displayed on our platforms and inside the properties. But it's, it's very simple.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: And how far is Sedona from. From.
Not Flagstaff, from Scottsdale or Phoenix or, you know, the airport that people might be coming into to visit.
[00:11:44] Speaker C: So it takes me an hour and like 40 minutes to get generally anywhere I need to to travel to Sedona.
If we're coming from the airport, it's probably closer to, you know, just slightly over two hours. And in Scottsdale, about a two hour drive.
Um, so it's, it's not terrible. And then adding a little bit more time for the Flagstaff area. If you're in Sedona, like uptown area to get to Flagstaff, it's about 40 minutes. I've done the drive frequently too. Like I've visited both areas in one day and then drove back home, no problem. And sometimes even straight to Scottsdale for showings and then back home. So, yeah.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: This program has been brought to you by the Short Term Shop.
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[email protected] yeah.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: So what kind of revenues do we see? And I know we can't speak specifically, but you know, generally, what kind of revenues do we see for properties in Sedona?
[00:13:49] Speaker C: I see like the average, like bottom line, maybe lowest 25th percentile if we're kind of ranking it around like 120k for like on average. And it all just depends on specific location, whether or not there's views.
There's a lot of data to compare in the area, minus maybe village of Oak Creek because it's so new with kind of, you know, the overturning of the HOA restriction that there's not a lot of data in that area, but everywhere else has really good data to kind of go off of.
And so I'd say at minimum at, you know, 120 is kind of where I usually see it land.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Okay, interesting.
So that's a, that's a very high, lowest baseline number.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: It's one of my favorite markets because if I get people coming that have, you know, the budget for it and the willingness to kind of be open minded to other areas outside of what people know Arizona for, which is typically Scottsdale, I always bring it up because when we're comparing maybe two separate properties, one in Sedona and one in Scottsdale, they're very different looks obviously, but usually the revenue potential is a little bit more appealing in the Sedona area.
And it's smaller sized property, usually, which is hard to wrap your head around sometimes, but, but then when I explain the reasons why, it makes a little bit more sense.
So properties appreciate a lot quicker in the Sedona area. They hold their values. There's a lot of benefits for the Sedona area.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Okay, so what else about Sedona do we need to know or do our listeners need to know before we move on to talking a little bit about Flagstaff?
[00:15:43] Speaker C: I mean, as long as, if you're ever jumping online, as long as you're removing HOA communities, that should usually do the trick in just kind of reviewing what's available to get a little bit more familiarized with the area.
It's a smaller area.
There's a lot of visitors that come.
Not quite as much as the Grand Canyon, but a significant amount of people, at least half of the amount from the Grand Canyon in terms of number of visitors. So it's very popular every time that I'm there. I mean, uptown is just jam packed with tourists. So it is a tourist driven area and short term rentals are welcome so long as we stay in the safe areas, which again are like outside of, of HOA communities. So it's definitely one to consider.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: So where, where do most of the tourists come from? Are they coming from, you know, the big cities in Arizona? Are they coming from Vegas? Where are people flying in? Where's most of the tourism come From.
[00:16:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I see a lot of obvious, out of even the country tourists.
You know, as I'm passing, walking up and down uptown, you know, I could hear the different languages. So they're definitely traveling. Traveling from all over. We do get a lot of locals. I mean, we all love to, you know, escape the heat during the summer. So whenever it's summer vacation or even spring, it's. It's booming in springtime as well. It's beautiful. During that time, a lot of us locals will go up north and Sedona and Flagstaff, some of the other northern is.
Would be no exception of us, you know, traveling because it's. It's, you know, depending on where you're specifically located, two hours or less potentially of travel time. Not very. Not very long.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: Okay, awesome. All right, so let's move on to Flagstaff, because I don't hear this one get talked about a whole lot. So what would you say the price point is when you compare Flagstaff to both Sedona and Scottsdale?
[00:17:52] Speaker C: I'd say probably the average is about like 650.
And I've definitely seen properties below that price point and definitely above that price point.
It's a little bit. It's a lot different. The, you know, the scenery is different. Lots of pines.
You know, very, very lush. It's very, you know, outdoorsy in the fishing and the hiking. Grand Canyon is not far from.
From Flagstaff, specifically. Williams is kind of a closer little city that has a lot of just seasonal things to do. They do, you know, Thanksgiving with pumpkin patches and really fun things.
That is the only area, you know, the most popular skiing part of our state. It's. We have snowball, so a lot of people don't realize that we do get snow. And it is primarily in the Flagstaff area. There are other areas, but Flagstaff, just because of the elevation, we have snowball. So skiing, snowboarding, I mean, that's the appeal to that particular city, especially during, like, fall and winter time.
This year, my daughter's. She just had her sweet 16, and for her birthday, she wanted to go skiing. And again, true Arizonans, we don't do snow. I don't know how to ski.
And it was just something she wanted to do. We couldn't find a big enough spot. So that was. That's one thing I will say. It was really, really hard finding an Airbnb that can accommodate, like, multifamily. And, you know, we were inviting cousins and things like that. So it was. It was a large group. We just couldn't find anything. So we ended up renting in Sedona an Airbnb and just drove in the morning to Snowball, stayed there the whole day and you know, drove back to the Airbnb in Sedona and it was fine. I mean, it was, we were tired after a long day, but it was, the drive was not excruciating by any means. So it was a good time and I feel like a lot of people can do that.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Okay, good to know. So we've got basically the skiing is. That's why people go visit this market. All right. And we're looking at like 650 price point.
[00:20:10] Speaker C: Same thing.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Regulations wise, pretty, pretty favorable or are there any different regulations?
[00:20:15] Speaker C: Pretty much the same. I mean, I think they're all, I think all of the cities are really trying to adopt the same, you know, even registration fee.
At first it was like 150 somewhere at 200.
Now collectively, as I'm starting to notice, it's about 250 all across the board. So they're all pretty much the same, you know, registering for TPT license and making sure that it's on your platforms, on any of the pages, Airbnb, vrbo, that it's displayed, that it's in your, in your property as well, all of the things.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Okay, and what would you say, what do we typically see in revenue on like let's say one of these $650,000 places. How big is that and what, what's like a baseline revenue that you see?
[00:21:02] Speaker C: So that one specifically that market highly depends on specific location and how in close proximity you are to some of like the hiking trails or some of the lakes that are in the area.
I've seen different ranges, so on average I'd say about 75 to 85 is probably like the low min and then it can go up from there. Amenities are a big deal anywhere in my market. So I mean probably like every other market.
Hot tubs.
Pools are not as popular in Flagstaff. I will say I have not seen really any, you know, properties that accommodate a pool.
I've not noticed just admittingly. But like hot tubs are a big deal, I would say in the Flagstaff area because again, the temperature changes drastic from, from Flagstaff to the Valley. I've traveled in the summer from 115 degree weather close to 120 and, and been in Flagstaff during the summer and it was 78 degrees. So it's. Oh my gosh, really, really drastic. It's, it's just like, I don't know it's weird. I'm like, should I be wearing a jacket or a sweater? I feel cold.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: All right, so all good information, there's really not a lot of big properties in Flagstaff. So that's something we need to remember when we're looking is that those don't really exist. So scarce resource there.
Let's kind of compare and contrast. Let's say I'm a short term rental investor from California and I just want to invest close to home but not in California. And I'm not really sure which of these three markets that I want to invest in. What would you tell me?
[00:22:54] Speaker C: I would say, I always say, what is your comfortability? Like, I can understand what you might be pre qual for, but where are you comfortable spending? And then when I get that information, it is easier for me to help kind of guide them into a couple of different markets that I would recommend.
So really I'm trying to figure out, well, what is the budget? And you know, can it, can it fit in line with maybe a Sedona purchase which is above a million dollars or more, you know, or are we kind of trying to linger around a million dollars? Then I would probably say let's stick to the Scottsdale area because there's so many ins and lots of great potentials in that point and anything below, I'd probably do a mixture of Flagstaff and, you know, maybe even other areas just right outside of Scottsdale, like Tempe and Phoenix and things like that.
Okay, great.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: So kind of depends on price point.
Seems like Scottsdale is kind of the, the.
I'm trying. I was going to say middle tier, but that makes it sound like not nice, but.
So Sedona is the ultra luxury. Scottsdale is like medium luxury. And then if you're on a little bit more of a budget, then you might recommend Flagstaff or some of the surrounding areas of Scottsdale. Is that what I'm hearing you say?
[00:24:16] Speaker C: So I, I actually think that Scottsdale is definitely ultra luxury with different scenery. So I mean, I've seen like gorgeous properties in Scottsdale. I think it's a good mix between Scottsdale and Sedona. For the people that want something different, being up north or just a different type of scenery and are okay with the travel time. If you're flying into Phoenix, you know, sky harbor, then I definitely say, hey, let's consider Sedona. But if they're all about kind of like the urban aspect and being in the city, but still want luxury, definitely Scottsdale.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Gotcha. And then, you know, Scottsdale, you have a little bit more, a different array of tourists. So not just wellness travelers, not just vacationers. You've got business travelers, you've got all kinds of things. So maybe a little bit more flexibility there for a nervous investor who is a little bit too scared of a true vacation market. Maybe go to Scottsdale. That's what I tell when people ask me like, oh, hey, like a beach makes me nervous. A national park makes me nervous because there's nothing there other than that resource. So Scottsdale is usually my recommendation when they say I want to be like in a city with maybe a little bit more flexibility of not just vacationers.
[00:25:37] Speaker C: Yeah, that's spot on. Exactly what I would say for Scottsdale.
Awesome.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: So anything else about any of these three markets or comparing and contrasting before we move on to the final three questions of the show?
[00:25:49] Speaker C: No. I mean, I always say I feel like people get a little bit, I guess, hesitant about some of my areas of the market because you're like, oh, I just can't afford Scottsdale or I can't afford Sedona. And that might be true, but I always say there is, there is a, there is a sub market for every budget and there for every investor. So I, my goal is to find the right property and I've helped people purchase $300,000 condos in Scottsdale and you know, $3 million single families in Sedona and, and Scottsdale. So something for everyone and everything in between.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: Love that, love that. And guys, if you want to reach out to her, you can of course find her on our website or her email is Leslie L E s l I e@the short term shop.com.
[00:26:41] Speaker C: yes.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: So we'll put her email and contact info in the show notes too. But just so you know and Leslie. All right, we are to the final three questions of the show. Are you ready?
[00:26:50] Speaker C: I'm ready.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: What advice would you give 20 year old Leslie if you knew then what, you know now
[00:26:58] Speaker C: stop buying all the stupid things and buy assets.
If I, I literally sometimes think, gosh, if I wouldn't have, you know, did that or bought that, like how much, how much I would have in and properties and assets and where I would be and how my life would be so different. So, you know, my goal is to teach my kids like let's, let's be smart with investing. I wish, I wish I just knew.
It's just like the question is I just wish I knew everything then so that my, you know, my things and my choices would have been a whole lot different, but fast forward and you know, here we are.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: Don't we all?
All right, number two, what advice would you give a new short term rental investor who's getting started today?
[00:27:48] Speaker C: Honestly, just do it. It took me a little bit of time to get it right, but we don't know what we don't know. And also what we don't know is scary. And so when I connect with people, I hear it a lot. Like, I'm just, you know, I'm nervous, I'm scared. And those are all natural feelings, like, we're human. But, you know, as long as you're prepared, as long as you do your due diligence and do the research, like, literally, just do it.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: Also, good advice. And last question. What's your favorite book that's impacted your mindset?
[00:28:22] Speaker C: Your book, Honestly, I. And I share this with my clients.
I went to a networking mixer, like a real estate networking mixer, and I met someone and he, he shared your book with me. And literally I got on my phone, put it in my Amazon cartoon when I finally purchased it. And then when I finally read it, I was enthralled. I read it in one day and I looked at my husband, I said, we're doing this and still a real estate agent at the time. And, you know, I had every intention of representing myself and buying our first investment. And honestly, long term was like my mindset before that networking mixer. I knew nothing else, to be honest.
And when I read your book, I just, it just like hit me.
We had to do it. And that's how my story started. I read your book, I googled you guys. I found a realtor that, you know, or I think I did the website and then I got connected with one of the realtors in Tennessee and that's how my story got started.
So your book definitely changed my mindset on investing.
And here we are.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Well, thank you very much. I'm glad for it to have helped in some way and not.
And you didn't hate it, so.
[00:29:42] Speaker C: Oh, I loved it. I couldn't put it down.
[00:29:46] Speaker B: I mean, it's boring. It's real estate investing. It's.
[00:29:48] Speaker C: Well, you know what? And maybe that's kind of like why it's a perfect fit. Because I love all things real estate, but also, like, I just, I never knew that short term renting was a thing. I mean, I knew about Airbnb and vrbo, but just like a different perspective and like realizing that I could do this, that's really what changed my mindset. And that's, you know, that's why I'm here, trying to help others achieve their goals. Like, I mean, your book really changed it for me. So thank you.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: Thank you. You're promoted.
All right. Well, Leslie, thank you so much for coming on. Guys, if you want to connect with Leslie, you can come on our website and get connected there. She's
[email protected] if you want to email her directly. And Leslie, what's your Instagram?
[00:30:43] Speaker C: It's long. Leslie Carbajal, Realtor.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: Leslie Carbajal, Realtor on Instagram. And when you when this comes out, we'll tag you and collab you on on there so everybody can find you. But thank you so much for coming on. And listeners, we will see you next week.
[00:30:57] Speaker C: Thank you for having me.
