[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to the Short Term Show. The show about short term rentals and long term wealth with real property owners hosting real properties who are crushing it.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: In the vacation and short term rental space.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: And here's your host, Avery Carle.
[00:00:29] Speaker C: Hey all. Welcome back to another episode of the Short Term Show. We appreciate you listening with us every week because now we have been here, I think for four years officially, like right around now talking about short term rentals every week. So thanks for hanging with us. I am going to mention yet again that we are hiring agents in the Smoky Mountains, Emerald Coast. So that's Destin, Panama City Beach 38 area, Orlando, Branson and the Outer Banks. Oh, and the Poconos. So. And probably a few more that I forgot to mention because I'm not looking at a list. So if you're an agent, our agents are completely overwhelmed and we need some more agents. So email
[email protected] if you think you might be a fit.
And don't forget about Short Term Shop plus, our free app that we have for y'. All. We're kind of moving away from Facebook in the Facebook groups. Just, we're going to keep those running. But Facebook has just kind of become like the drunk boomer world of people ranting about everything and sorry to say, boomer. Nothing against boomers. My parents are boomers and they're wonderful. But you know what I mean? Figure speech.
It's just hard to get I found in any of the Facebook groups like good information recommendations anymore because everybody's just like paying to post and paying to be plugged and it's, it's, it's hard. So anyway, if you want to come chat with us about short term rentals and you know, get some one on one training too, we've got in our app, you know, places where you can do that. So anyway, that's enough about that short term shot+sts/com if you have any interest. Anyway, now on to the show. We've got a super cool guest today, Joe Del Grosso. He's in Knoxville and he, he has a lot of places. A lot of places. And kind of does a lot of things in the short term rental space. So happy to hear his story today. Thanks so much for coming on, Joe.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for having me on. Big fan of everything you do.
[00:02:26] Speaker C: Oh, well, thank you very much.
Yeah, a.
A random man who looks like a thumb with facial hair on Instagram just told me I needed to get my roots done, so I needed to hear that. Thank you.
And I'M like, it's ombre, look it up.
Anyway, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. So let's talk about you. Let's talk about you, Joe. So tell us a little bit about who you are, where you started, how you got into real estate.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, today I'm 39 years old, married with three boys. You know, we have a mixed portfolio of long term rentals, short term rentals.
You know, we own a management company as well. But really it started.
I'm originally from Boston, grew up there.
You know, it was always around real estate. My parents were teachers and, you know, they were always dabbling in it to kind of help, you know, with income and whatnot. I had uncles and grandfathers in it, but really, I didn't really catch that bug until later. I really fell in love with, you know, television and the TV industry. And I got into that really young. I got into that around like 15 years old.
Yeah, yeah, very young.
You know, I did three college internships before I was even in college.
Boston, you know, there's a lot of film, commercial, reality tv, TV there. So I was able to jump in.
Just had a lot of fun with it there.
I was doing TV in Boston until about, probably about 25, 26, doing a bunch of like, infotainment type stuff like Build It Bigger. Extreme engineering, kind of like some smart, fun tv.
The irony was, on the way out, the production company I was working with started producing a show called Spontaneous Construction, where for hgtv, where they had flash mobs and people in construction dancing around, renovating people's backyards in a flash mob style.
[00:04:29] Speaker C: What have they just truly run out of things to make. To make TV about?
[00:04:33] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. That was when I left. That was when I was like, all right, this is. I kind of hit my ceiling in Boston, you know, So I left before that show and I headed out to California for about a year. I worked at Country Music Television, so like cmt, you know, under Viacom, which was great. Being out in California was a lot of fun. I got to see it from the client side, whereas before I was on the production company side, where we would sell and produce it out there. I got to see it from the buyer side, which was, which was great.
I did that for about a year.
Didn't last in California too long.
And then eventually I was recruited by a production company in Knoxville, Tennessee. They were doing Impractical Jokers and say yes to the Dress. So packed up my, my truck and my dog and I drove out to Knoxville, Tennessee. That's where I am today.
[00:05:26] Speaker C: Okay, well, that is a great story. Sounds like a pretty fun career that you've had. And I know there's actually a surprising amount of TV companies like Scripps is in Knoxville. I don't know that's about the extent of what I know. But yeah, there's. There's more of that than you would expect in East Tennessee.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Yeah, especially I was surprised. I mean, Impractical Jokers was a. Is a huge show and they were producing it out of here. And I mean, I didn't know anyone when I moved here, but I was just engulfed in all the TV happening here. The Nashville's got like the country music scene, so it was great. I was the head of production for that company for about four or five years.
We did a bunch of different shows, a bunch of HGTV shows, you know, and then. But what was happening in the industry around 2016, 2017 was, you know, the streaming started really taking off.
You know, they called it the streaming wars. So we were all excited at first thinking, oh my God, there's more buyers. This is great. But a lot of them wanted, you know, the big names, they wanted the rock, they wanted Kevin Hart. You know, it actually became harder for the reality TV producers on that side. So it's just started getting super rocky and unsteady. You know, you'd have a really good year where you had five or six shows on the air, and then all of a sudden you wouldn't have a show on the air for like a year.
So it was just a lot of up and downs. So we started just seeing my parents invest in real estate as a way to help. We started doing that, my wife and I, in 2016. So we just started buying long term rentals.
We bought about four or five.
We just looked at that as a way of like, hey, in our late 40s or 50s, this will help us at complimentary income or whatnot. We didn't realize the bigger world of real estate. It was kind of funny because in 2019, that's when we actually discovered bigger pockets and podcasts. Like we were doing all that investing and not even realizing there's a whole world out there of it.
So that got fun. And yeah, we just started investing in long term rentals. And then we were still. I was still producing shows. I produced one of the first Airbnb specials, ironically enough, called Theme Queen.
And it was about this talent she was theming out with really cool Disney spaces in Orlando. And I was just watching it, and we were watching it all unfold. I had no idea that one day I'd be in it, but that was, that was fun. Orlando market's wild.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: It is, it is. And I. This is a controversial opinion, but it's a hill I'm willing to die on.
I feel like there is so much opportunity in Orlando right now because it did get saturated and then so many people sold, so many people are selling for a loss. And what I've at least seen this completely anecdotal. This is not data driven by any means. But what I've seen is, okay, guys, we're buying in Orlando. Here's what you have to do. You either have to be super updated or super immersively themed or a combination of both. So, you know, maybe you got a super updated kitchen and you've got a few like playrooms and bedrooms that are fully themed.
And what we would see people doing because the majority of these, these short term rental specific neighborhoods in Kissimmee were built in the early to mid 2000s when the whole Tuscan decor thing was big. So everything's really beige. Everything is very like Italian Olive Garden decor Y. And a lot of carpet, a lot of beige carpet and a lot of these things. So what we'd see people do is they go, okay, I need to update and I need to. And or theme. Got it. And then they go buy something and they slap a Mickey decal on the wall and like paint a bedroom. But they leave all the, the beige tile and the beige fixtures, fixtures in the blonde oak cabinets to where it still does look completely dated. Like, yeah, you did a few things, but it still looks like you slapped a Mickey decal on a 2005 property. And then, you know, a few years later they're, they can't figure out why it didn't work for them.
And so we're seeing, you know, we have seen like a mass sell off. We've seen values drop quite a bit. So in my opinion, as just somebody who's in the business and be somebody who goes to Disney World literally all the time. We went seven times last year. I'm not a Disney adult. Okay. This is specifically, I'm not a weirdo specifically because I love to see my kids have a good time. But I didn't mean to go down this, this tangent, but you know, there's only. If you're a family of four, like we are, you're good, you're on, on Disney property, you can stay in any hotel you want. But as soon as you add that third kid, there's and now there's five people. There's only four resorts at Disney that can house their house, that can sleep that many people in a room without having to go up to like a two bedroom, like a villa, boardwalk, or some of these places. And that's extremely expensive. So 54 million people go to Disney World every year. Every time I'm in those parks, I'm like, my God, how are there this many people everywhere all the time?
So, you know, there's not all of those people can afford the two bedroom cabin at Wilderness or the two bedroom thing at Polynesian. These people are trying to have a good time with their family affordably.
There is always going to be a need, in my opinion, for vacation rentals in the Disney area. And I think because we're seeing A, nobody's buying anything because rates are terrible. B, we kind of rode the, the saturation wave all the way up and the tide's kind of going out on that. I think if you do it right, there's still a lot of opportunity in Disney, in the Disney market. But anyway, way off topic.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: No, you're helping my case because we want to go this year and my wife wants to stay on the resort, but I want to stay on an Airbnb. And we have that third kid, so we're a family of five. So it's, it's just way too tight in the hotels. So we'll, we'll hopefully be staying in an Airbnb.
[00:11:26] Speaker C: See.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: It was funny when we were producing that show because we kept getting legal pushback from HGTV because they were like, don't say, like, don't mess with the mouse is what they kept saying. They're like, don't call it a frozen room. Call it nice room. Don't call it a Jungle Book room. Call it a jungle room. And like, but now you go on there and everyone's just full on, you know, I mean, now even Mario and all of that. Mario Kart and whatnot.
[00:11:51] Speaker C: So, yeah, I have heard that Disney will sue you if your, your likeness is too close. So you kind of got to be careful there. But all the themers down there, you know, kind of know the rules. So, yeah, it's interesting to me. But anyway, so you were working on this project. You're like, oh, I, I never would have thought that I'd be in this industry one day. So when did you buy your short term rental then?
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Well, so, I mean, I was 20, 21 is when we bought the first one. And I was nearing like 20 years in TV because I started so young. So I was starting to get a little bit burnt out and kind of looking at that next chapter. So, you know, we heard your podcast. We started hearing others talk about it. So in 2021, we bought our first STR in the Smokies, which killed it, which is great. Like, I'll, you know, I want to die with that one. It's just, it was a great deal. Great property. It's on a little creek.
So that did great. We saw that and then we bought another one in Georgia, and then we bought two more a few years later just around the Smokies. So we loved it. I mean, we kicked that off in 2021, and that really started our STR journey.
[00:12:59] Speaker C: So let's talk about that first deal. So it's on a creek. It's in the Smokies, closer to Gatlinburg, closer to Pigeon Forge. Where is it?
[00:13:07] Speaker B: It's in Sevierville. It's like four miles to Dollywood.
[00:13:11] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, no, it's just a little two bedroom with a loft.
You know, it's on a creek, no view, nothing like that. And I mean, it hasn't done below 95k in all the years we've had it. Yeah.
[00:13:23] Speaker C: Wow, that's a lot for a two bedroom. 95. That's really great.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah, in those first few years, it was around 99, 98. I think we'll probably be around 95 this year.
But it did great. I mean, and I think that's what kind of kicked us off into that next stage of life. Because, you know, Andrea, my wife, she started to design them and then we were sharing kind of different things that helped with us on the Facebook groups. On your Facebook group, people were seeing her designs, we're seeing the numbers, and they started reaching out, asking for help.
And you know, we were.
We were really hesitant on doing the co hosting or managing at first. It's not really something we pictured ourselves doing.
But you know, over the years, and then, you know, we. We started helping other people. We took on two, and then we took on eight, and that grew a little bit from there. And then in 2023, we. We officially started our management company to help other folks.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: And what's that called?
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Southern Sons Hospitality.
[00:14:23] Speaker C: Okay. Because you have three sons and you live in the South.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Yep. I'm from the north and I have all these southern boys running around right now. So.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: Yeah, my husband is from the Midwest and constantly he's like, oh, this Southern whatever. I'm like, listen, we have the Best food. So just be quiet. Yeah, we have the best manners. Usually to your face. Anyway. To your face.
So anyway, yeah. You boys from the north or the Midwest?
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Are you having trouble trying to decide which market to buy in?
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[00:15:37] Speaker C: I love that. Okay, so you've got Southern Sun. So are all of the properties that you manage in the Smokies or are they other places?
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Yeah, they're all in the Smokies. I mean, just the journey there was, was interesting because, you know, when you live in the Avery, Carl and Bill Faith and I think it's Kenny Bagwell and the STR Insight guys, like when you live in that world of content and listening and the Facebook groups, you think everyone is updating their cabins and everyone is like up to, you know, par and killing it and creating awesome amenities and whatnot. But then when you really get into, in the Smokies, there was a lot of people were just outdated cabins and they were struggling and they had these great stories of, you know, how they invested. But then, you know, they didn't catch up to the market so they were losing revenue, you know, not able to make mortgage. So we, we didn't realize that people like that were out there. And then, so as we started hearing more stories, as people started seeing Andrea's designs, you know, then we just started helping people and we started, you know, taking on clients and you know, we, we just, I think our biggest fear is we didn't want to become another, you know, another management company. I mean, the stories of management companies in the Smokies and other places are, you know, management company starts, they get five clients and then 50 clients and then 100 clients and then 500 clients. And then all of a sudden it just, it goes to shambles. So I think that was a big thing for us as we started this.
We don't want that. Like we want a capped inventory, you know, and that's something we, we promise to our owners as well. Like we're capping it. Like that's it. This is a private club, you know, however, you want to call it. It's like we just, and I have no shade towards, you know, the bigger cabin companies.
[00:17:15] Speaker C: I actually, I'll shade them.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I, you know, we have a pretty high turndown rate, you know, just in terms of how we mesh up with or match up with owners. And if we do or if we don't. So, like, I'll send them to the bigger, you know, cabin companies that, you know, might be a better fit for them. But I don't know. I've been told we're the only management company in the Smokies who actually keeps a capped inventory. And that's something we really like to, you know, hang our hat on and we're proud of it.
[00:17:45] Speaker C: I, I'm glad you brought this up because I'll, I'll go ahead and, and do my beef with the big management companies here since. Since you brought it up. So back when I started, back in my day when we had to go to school, uphill in the snow, both ways. So the cabin companies, there were no. This was in 2015. So this is 10 years ago. @ this point. I am elderly.
So the big cabin companies, it was kind of like a. They charge 40%. Okay, that's not helpful in any way. Not worth it in any way. But what they do when there are these big high volume companies that have thousands of cabins, so they're not focused on optimizing your price per night as the owner and getting you the highest amount possible. They are focused on low prices and volume of assets in the seats. And what they do, because they're usually not on Airbnb or Verbo, they might have listings there, but they're priced extremely high in order to drive you to their direct booking website.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Their ratings are terrible to terrible, terrible.
[00:18:46] Speaker C: So you know what these guys do is they call it, they call it rent shifting. I don't know if they call it rent shifting, but that's what it's called. They get your, your property booked super cheap because they're having to split that with you. Usually it's like 80, 20 now. But where they make their money are the fees at the end. So they'll charge, you know, like a service fee or whatever fee. And they're making two or three hundred bucks on that that they're not having to split with you. So they're saying, hey, Mr. Owner, look, you're 100% booked. We're doing great. And then, you know, you're not booked high enough to really pay your bills. Then they're taking 20% they're also making their fees on top of everything and then they're also charging you an arm and a leg for any sort of maintenance done. So that's the problem that I have with the big property managers. And back back in 2015, I used to argue with people on the Internet all the time about why property managers were stupid. But now we've kind of like come full circle because we had only those guys and then we had self managers who were really professionalizing the self management aspect of, of short term rentals. And then born out of those self managers, like a new generation of property managers who are trying to optimize their owner's price per night, who are trying to do that good job. And yes, it costs money, but in the. Doing it this way is more of like a. What's the saying, A rising tide raises all the ships than the old scenario of, well, let's just get these guys booked super cheap, a hundred percent. Looks like, hey, we're doing a great job because the calendar's full, but they're not making any money. If you do it, if you're optimizing, then everybody's making money.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just so competitive right now. I feel like we're in the varsity league and the Smokies too. Like, I mean, we're doing two to three hours a day of revenue management, you know, and that's just with our 25 cabins that we have right now. So, I mean, and like you gotta. And having Andrea, you know, on with us as well, it's like in her designs and going in there and bringing them up to, you know, a new level that they never knew of before. It's like that's, you know, those management companies don't have that. You know, they're sometimes not even looking at these cabins for months at a time. You know, they can't. How can you, when you have 500 cabins? How are you doing that? You know, I feel like I'm creating some enemies right now and I'm going to get some hate mail.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: No, those guys aren't listening to this podcast.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I just, I just think it's, you know, I mean, we've had, I mean, at least 8 or 10 of the cabins we brought on have at least doubled in revenue. You know, it's like, I mean, so we're more than, you know, covering ourselves and then we're going beyond that. So I mean, they had.
Here's what I keep telling a lot of these guys that we take on. It's like you guys made a great investment. Like, don't get down on yourself. Like, you just need to now bring it to that next level with great design, great amenities, great pricing, great hosting. I mean, we have a 4.96 rating on Airbnb. Like, you really, you really can't get below that. Like, you don't want to go below that. You know, just from a search algorithm standpoint, rankings how you show up.
So. No, we're really proud of it. We love what we do. I mean, we're obsessed with it. I mean, it's just my wife and I, we have an operations manager on to help us as well with our sanity because it is, it is a lot, but we love it.
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[00:22:56] Speaker C: So my next question is let's, let's pretend you have one spot open and I come to you with my cabin. So what, what are the typically the problems that you're seeing with that owners are having when they're bringing you a cabin? They're saying, you know, I've tried everything and you're able to turn it around. What's typically. Is there a common thread of maybe something they're doing wrong or something they're overlooking? Not something they're doing wrong. We don't want to tell anybody they're stupid or anything, but you know what I mean?
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah, the biggest thing is outdated design.
You know, I mean some of the, I mean, we were just meeting with one this week. I mean they've been in the Smokies since 2005, you know, and their furniture and their comforters and their amenities show that. Like, that's the biggest thing. Like just getting Andrea in there to update it and to bring it up to the next tier is just that that's the common thing we keep running into. Also there's just little tricks too. Like we've, we took on one two bedroom cabin that was massive, but it was actually like, we could call it a four bedroom, you know, so they went from 74k in revenue to 160k, you know, just last year. Yeah, I mean, we updated, like, we made. Like, we're like, hey, this loft is a bedroom. They're like, no, it's not. I was like, yes, in real estate terms, it's not. But an Airbnb World, that's another bedroom. And as long as we disclose that to the guests, we do really heavily detailed property detail sections for all of our listings, where we're like, bedroom three is an open loft. Bedroom four is, you know, a closed bedroom. So, like, we, you know, there's just so much opportunity there that they're not seeing that we go in there. It's like, design amenities, how to properly market and sell your listing. Like, I was in tv, I was mostly on the production and operations side, but I did do some writing and developing and selling. And so I think that bringing that to, like, their listing and really marketing in that way has helped a lot too. It's like, you're right next to over mountain. Sell that, you know.
[00:24:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Mention that. It's. It's crazy the things that people forget to mention in their descriptions and things that they forget to have in the photos, like the view.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: You. All those good things. Yeah.
[00:25:02] Speaker C: So when you say Andrea comes in and does the design when you. We're bringing a cabin on, and it's like this 2005 cabin that needs a lot of help. And I will say, a lot of people, they. They will buy what I call a mama cabin, and they'll say, you know, they'll change the comforters, and then they'll say, okay, I updated it. And then they put that same mammal cabin back on Airbnb, and it doesn't do well.
And it's like, well, you didn't really do anything to it. It's still got the mama window treatments and all the crap above the cabinets that's collecting dust and, you know, all the things. So when you say that Andrea comes in and does this upgrade of the decor, are y' all doing these big $400,000, adding all these crazy things, or are you just doing a refresh of all the decor to make it look more like 2025 than 2005?
[00:25:52] Speaker B: I mean, our budgets. I mean, I've heard of some budgets out there being like 100,000 or 200,000. I mean, our budgets range from, like, 40 to 60,000. I mean, we're doing accent walls, all new furniture, new amenities. We've done, like. We try to think outside the box. Like, we made One cabin that had like a large closet. We put a hidden door bookshelf.
So, like, you press on the bookshelf or the book in there and then the door opens up and there's a game room in there.
Yeah. So always thinking, like, from a design standpoint, how can we make it stand up? We have a really a cheesy saying that says, you know, what stops the scroll? You know, I mean, on average, Airbnb or VRBO guests, they look at the first 13 photos, you know, by the time they make their decision. So it's like, how can we make those first 13 photos pop?
So, yeah, I mean, murals. She's done great with her muralist team. That's been a big pop.
She recently turned someone's garage into a giant gaming garage with pool and arcade games and air hockey. So it's like we look at every property and we're like, all right, yes, we need to update A through Z. We understand that. But what's the extra? What's the difference maker? And the X factor? And she's just really good at finding that in each property.
[00:27:09] Speaker C: So I like that you're saying, you know, you're spending 50, 60,000 and we're not doing anything nuts. We're doing a full refresh of the interior. Maybe some accent walls, maybe some paint, maybe some murals. But I have so my, again, anecdotal, not data driven my properties in the Smokies, none of them are these ultra mega crazy things where you're putting hundreds of thousands of dollars of crazy amenities and they've crushed it since day one. So. Yes. Did I pay less back in the day than things cost now? Yeah, but they're grossing numbers that would still work today. And none of them are anything crazy. We keep them nice and updated. We keep our kitchens and bathrooms updated, and we make sure there's no mama stuff. Everything is updated. So I think a lot of people kind of mistakenly think you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in the Smokies to differentiate. Differentiate yourself.
And that has not been my experience. Has that been your experience?
[00:28:12] Speaker B: Same. Yeah. You do not have to. I keep hearing about like hundred thousand dollar game rooms and whatnot. And I'm like, how would you ever make that up later? So I mean, no, you can. I mean, we've done like. I mean, we call the 40,000 to like 60,000 range, like a full design. Yeah. Know, even in reality, compared to others, like it's not. But like we've done like $20,000 and $30,000 refreshes and it still worked. Their cabins still double and go up 30, 40%.
So, I mean, you. You don't have to shell out this giant amenity package like you've heard on. On other places.
[00:28:45] Speaker C: Yeah. So you don't have to go nuts, guys.
All right?
[00:28:51] Speaker B: And, you know, because we're. We're a smaller company, like, we're flexible, too. Like, we break it out into different phases for owners. Like, we're doing a six bedroom right now. It's like, you know, last year we did the game room, living room, and movie theater room, and then now Andrea's doing just the bedroom. So it's like we break it up for them. We do it in between, you know, the shoulder months and busy season.
[00:29:10] Speaker C: So love that. So I think that all of this is very, very reasonable advice, which is awesome because, you know, the past few years, there's so many. So many people in the space and so many people trying to get likes and follows that, myself included, that you kind of lose sight of what it actually takes. Because, like, hey, if I do this big crazy, you know, turn this house into a spaceship that launches twice a week, then I'm going to get a lot of views on social media and more people will book my place. And I think that people lose sight of the Smokies is a lower to middle class vacation. And if you go too crazy, the demographic of the travelers are not going to be able to afford your place.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I've actually seen some of, like, the luxury builds suffer a little bit. It's like. And it's like, why? This cabin is beautiful. It's got all the finishes and pools and hot tubs and pickleball courts. And it's like, I don't know. Yeah, just that I think you're spot on. I've heard you say it before. It's like, yeah, that luxury booking avatar really isn't in the Smokies, you know?
[00:30:11] Speaker C: Yeah. I think there was a definite hole, like, in 2020, and I think the developers came in and overfilled that. So a lot of the saturation complaints that you hear now are from those higher occupancy luxury owners. And then the information gets kind of disseminated on the Internet. Well, I have this beautiful property, and I'm not doing well, therefore the Smokies are over. But if you look at the smaller properties, like my one bedroom. Crushes. Crushes. Makes almost as much money, or, sorry, it's a studio. Makes almost as much money as my two bedrooms. So if you kind of break it out and look at Individual bedroom counts and look at the things that are booking go. You know, you can sort by occupancy on the price labs. Market dashboard. You can do this for any market, guys. This is just happens to be the market that we're talking about here.
And you can see what is doing well and what isn't. Sorry, my mom just called and it's connected to my phone.
Mom.
All right. Yeah. So anyway, there's always a way to be successful in any market at any time. Even if everybody tells you it's over.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Yeah, Yep. No, I agree with that 100%.
[00:31:17] Speaker C: Do you have a favorite bedroom count to manage?
[00:31:20] Speaker B: Oh, gosh, I go from the two extremes. Like, I love the one and two bedrooms, but I also love the six bedrooms, you know, but with the Smokies, it's tricky because of all the new fire inspection stuff and whatnot. Like, I love the six bedrooms that can do, you know, 16, 18 plus. Those do great. But then also, like the small and mighty one and two bedrooms, you know, done right. Those. Those can also just be a great investment for everyone, so.
[00:31:47] Speaker C: Totally agree. Is there anything.
Let's say you're not. You're not full on the amount of properties that you're taking. So let's say you. You've got a little room to take on a few properties. What are some things that would make.
No, I'm not going to take this property. Even if you have room to manage it.
[00:32:04] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. Yeah. I mean, we're at 25, so we have essentially 10 spots left. But I mean, what's made us say no in the past is owner personality, you know, and just kind of meshing and jiving with them. You know, we, you know, we want to make sure there's a good relationship there. We're excited when they call, they're excited when we call.
That's number one. Number two is just, you know, their willingness and ability to invest back in the property, to upgrade stuff, you know, to keep up.
I mean, that's. That. Those are the two big things. I mean, location, too. Just making sure they're within a location that we feel like we can help.
But those are the three big factors. The owner personality, though, is the biggest one. We just want.
Yeah, I mean, we just want to make sure, you know.
Yeah.
We're aligned and whatnot.
So. Yeah, that's the biggest thing.
[00:32:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, I hear that it's, you know, one out, unreasonable client can really, even if you've got, you know, 25, that one unreasonable person can really ruin your whole Vibe of your whole business can make you, you know, cringe every time your phone rings. So I think it's really important to Pumpkin plan. Mike Michalowicz. Great book.
Read it.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, I love that one. Yeah. No, I mean, we've only. I mean, in the. The few years or several years now, we've been doing this, like, we've only ever parted ways with one owner. And I mean, both sides were happy financially. I mean, she. We tripled her revenue over the summer, which was great, but we just didn't, you know, vibe from, like, just a personality and energy standpoint, you know? But that's. Yeah, I mean, that. That's just so important. I mean, we're.
Everything we do is family. Like, the brand is family. The name is. The name's after family. Like, we like working with families. So, I mean, we like people that respect our family time. So, I mean, that's just everything we want, you know, from that relationship. I mean, even our operations manager, who we brought on, who has saved our sanity, it's like we call him cousin Dane, you know, shout out cousin Dane. So, I mean, that's. That's the brand and energy of everything we do. That's the guest avatar we aim for too. You know, when we're designing these properties, I mean, that's really. Those are the cabins we like to take on. It's like we picture ourselves with our three kids here, you know, like, and how would they enjoy it? And I think that's helped us a lot.
[00:34:26] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And most people are wonderful, but it really just takes one to be like, oh, my gosh, why am I doing this?
[00:34:33] Speaker B: So, yeah, no, we're. We're very lucky with the owners we have. Like, they're. They're great and they're so collaborative and fun to talk to, and they just. They. I think we've earned their trust. So that's, you know, when we say, like, hey, you know, this arcade game is kind of janky now. Can we upgrade? And they're just like, do whatever you need to do, you know? So, like, having that trust in that relationship is really important.
[00:34:55] Speaker C: Yeah, totally agree with that. So is there anything about managing properties for other people in any market that I haven't asked about that? You feel like our listeners who might be interested in doing the same thing would benefit from hearing about, like, if.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: They were interested in managing?
[00:35:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: Gosh, you know, I mean, just. Just go slow, take it nice and easy, Be respectful of people's investments. I mean, that's the biggest Thing, you know, I think right now there's such a culture on social media with, and I'm a huge fan of them, like the Hermosis and Rich Sommers and all these guys who are building businesses and they're building empires and I listen to their content, Content non stop. I love that stuff.
But I think you can get caught in the. I'm going to build an empire of 500 properties. It's like, just take it easy. Like figure out what works. Like go slow. You know, it's like be driven but like go slow and like you're dealing with other people's investments and money. Like, don't try to take over the world and leave those ones who gave you a chance behind, you know? So, I mean, I think that would be the biggest advice I'd give.
[00:36:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I 1,000% agree with that. I've had, I've used vendors in the past that like we ended up parting ways because I could just never get a hold of them. Everything seemed to be like half assed when it was done. And so we parted ways and then, you know, a month later they're sending me a text like, hey, look, I. I'm in the million dollar club on click funnels. And I'm like, yeah. And I couldn't get you to answer any of my questions about anything because you have too many clients.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Gosh, I just don't, I don't know, maybe if I was younger or, I don't know, hadn't already had like a crazy 25 or 20 year television career, I'd be up for taking over the world like that. But just our values now and vision now. It's like, I don't, I don't know who wants that? That fire?
[00:36:54] Speaker C: I think, I think we're all like that. Well, people, entrepreneurs are like that in our 20s. I think I've calmed down a lot over the last five or six years myself.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And you just, you do it within your lane. Like, I mean we're always testing out new technology and we're right on the cutting edge of all these new things coming out. And there we go with absolute like drive at everything we do. But, you know, we do it within our lane so we don't step out and like, oh, shiny object syndrome and oh, what's all these other things? It's like, no, like we're gonna crush being a boutique management company in the Smokies or we're gonna be the best one. And it's like, stay focused on that.
[00:37:30] Speaker C: Yep. I've Been guilty of doing that too. So it's just better to streamline and you know, be good at the thing you're really good at, in my opinion.
[00:37:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, and now, you know, with, with us growing a little bit here, it's like now having our operations manager on, it's like he handles, he's on like the front lines of guest messaging and cleaner coordination and contractors. So Andre can focus on the design and design integrity. I can focus on the revenue management and the client relationships. So we're kind of like this perfect triangle right now in that way. I don't want to, I don't want to get any bigger.
[00:38:03] Speaker C: All right, so Joe, you've been a wonderful guest. We're to the last three questions of the show that we ask every single guest. And the first question is, what advice would you give 20 year old Joe if you knew then what you know.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: Now that's a good one.
20 year old Joe, I would say like unreasonable curiosity is huge. I mean at 20 years old it's like try everything, you know, like look into everything. Like when, I mean when we were first getting into investing, I was looking at multifamily and storage and all this different stuff and like you almost feel like a failure when you're looking into this stuff and then it doesn't go the way you think. But it's like no, like looking into that stuff was like, was great. That was me testing it out and feeling it out and then finding my way. So it's like I think just having that unlimited curiosity but then honing in that curiosity once you get your goal, you know, like right now it's like I approach everything in management with unlimited curiosity. I want to know the latest tech. Like we're working with Hospitable on their new mogul feature they're doing. So it's like I want to attack everything with curiosity and that's what I would recommend a 20 year old me. It's like don't get all upset over not having it figured it out. It's like just try everything.
[00:39:19] Speaker C: Great advice.
And what is your advice for a new short term rental investor who's looking to get started today at the end of 2025, everybody's telling everybody that short term rentals are over.
I saw a reel with Ryan Pineda and Pace Morby today saying short term rentals are at the end. It's a waste of time and blah, blah, come holes, come take my wholesaling course and learn how to, how to do subject to. But you know to me, that that may be true in metro markets or like, weird suburbs, but the vacation rental industry, I think, is separate from the whole, quote, short term rental industry. So what would be your advice for a new investor, you know, navigating all this noise in market today? Is it still doable?
[00:40:01] Speaker B: I love that the noise is happening. Scare them all away. Because, like, I mean, of the 25 cabins we have, I mean, all of them are up year over year. So I mean, like, there's clearly enough meat on the bone there.
I mean, just run your numbers, understand what you want from the property too. Like, is this an investment property that I want to try to, you know, use as income, or is this an investment property like I'm playing for it for the long run.
But I mean, there's still, I mean, there's still what, 15 million people a year coming into the Smokies. Is it more than that now?
[00:40:32] Speaker C: So 15 million to the national park, but there are several million that just do Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg that don't actually go into the park. So a little bit more than that, I think.
[00:40:43] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I just, I. I would say go all in. I mean, it's, it's, you know, especially in markets, the vacation rental markets, like the Smokies and Florida and Georgia, like, there's still just plenty of people just absolutely crushing it out there.
So just do your numbers and understand your goal for it.
[00:41:01] Speaker C: All right, last question. What's your favorite book that's impacted your mindset?
[00:41:07] Speaker B: I got two. I mean, for business, it was who, not how. You know, that that book was just everything. Because I think both Andrea and I are like, you know, just get out of the way, I'm just going to do it myself type people who not how really opened up to, like, you know, hey, like, other people can help you do this if you train them and work with them. And I mean, that was. That was huge for us. But personal, I would say the. I think it's the gap in the gain. Have you heard of that one?
[00:41:33] Speaker C: Yes. Love that one.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: That I need to read that like every month. I mean, it's just so good because it just, it talks to you about, you know, living in, you know, the gain of the things you've done versus constantly, you know, living in the gap of what you haven't done. That book is just a great mindset reset, you know, for. For everything you're doing, anything you're doing.
[00:41:55] Speaker C: Love that one. That is a good one. I have to tell myself that about non business stuff. All the time.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:02] Speaker C: You're in the gap right now. You were so in the gap. But we're.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: We're out of. We're out of potty training. Just be happy.
[00:42:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I can't go back to that.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: No.
[00:42:13] Speaker C: My husband every now and then is like, let's have another one. No, sir.
[00:42:18] Speaker B: Same. I'm fighting that battle every day. Three. Three is good. Three is good.
[00:42:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
All right, well, Joe, if our listeners want to find you, follow you, learn more about you. How can they do that?
[00:42:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. We're Southern Sons hospitality on. On Instagram and Facebook. They can holler at us on there and would love to chat or you can kind of see the fun things we post. We are just getting slammed with bears this season, so that right now, it's a lot of me running from bears at the moment, but.
But no, reach out to us. Say hi and we'd love to chat.
[00:42:51] Speaker C: All right, well, Joe, thanks so much for coming on again.
[00:42:54] Speaker B: Cool. Thank you so much. Appreciate ram.
